River monitors?

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n7axw wrote:Dilandu is probably right about the superiority of the monitor design. However, given the superiority of the current riverclads to any potential opposition they might be facing, there is really no need for a new design. This is simply not something anybody on the other sife is going to be able to match, at least for the current war.

Don

Depending on the rivers, paddle steamers may be better. Both sides in the US Civil War built armored paddle steamers since paddle steamers are more tolerant of shallow water (and easier to repair after a grounding, since all the machinery is above the waterline). Whilst screws are more efficient, if you don't have deep enough water (or dredge regularly) you need to consider the grounding case carefully. Water jet propulsion would be another option as these can be recessed into the hull to minimize damage.

AirTech wrote:[url][/url]

n7axw wrote:Dilandu is probably right about the superiority of the monitor design. However, given the superiority of the current riverclads to any potential opposition they might be facing, there is really no need for a new design. This is simply not something anybody on the other sife is going to be able to match, at least for the current war.

Don

Depending on the rivers, paddle steamers may be better. Both sides in the US Civil War built armored paddle steamers since paddle steamers are more tolerant of shallow water (and easier to repair after a grounding, since all the machinery is above the waterline). Whilst screws are more efficient, if you don't have deep enough water (or dredge regularly) you need to consider the grounding case carefully. Water jet propulsion would be another option as these can be recessed into the hull to minimize damage.

With your paddle wheel you would need to protect it from cannon fire, I would think. Armoring the paddle might add a lot of extra weight...or maybe there is an answer to that I'm not seeing.

Water jet propulsion would be better, less exposed to damage from hostile action. Weber used that idea in "The Baltic War" in Flint's 1631 series. IIRC, they were powered by diesel, not steam.

Don

n7axw wrote:With your paddle wheel you would need to protect it from cannon fire, I would think. Armoring the paddle might add a lot of extra weight...or maybe there is an answer to that I'm not seeing.

Some paddle wheel ironclads (or just paddle wheel steamers) had a single paddle-wheel amidships. Others just armored the paddle-wheels with a box of sheet armor. Google is your friend and will show you all kinds of ironclads, including paddle-wheel designs.

n7axw wrote:
SNIP

With your paddle wheel you would need to protect it from cannon fire, I would think. Armoring the paddle might add a lot of extra weight...or maybe there is an answer to that I'm not seeing.

Water jet propulsion would be better, less exposed to damage from hostile action. Weber used that idea in "The Baltic War" in Flint's 1631 series. IIRC, they were powered by diesel, not steam.

Don

This Geography major wondered if you COULD run high power pumps with steam engines. Can steam engines get the same dragonpower as diesels?

EdThomas wrote:

n7axw wrote:
SNIP

With your paddle wheel you would need to protect it from cannon fire, I would think. Armoring the paddle might add a lot of extra weight...or maybe there is an answer to that I'm not seeing.

Water jet propulsion would be better, less exposed to damage from hostile action. Weber used that idea in "The Baltic War" in Flint's 1631 series. IIRC, they were powered by diesel, not steam.

Don

This Geography major wondered if you COULD run high power pumps with steam engines. Can steam engines get the same dragonpower as diesels?

One reason NOT to use waterjet is higher speed gearing would be required due to using low speed triple expansion steam engines.

One reason TO use waterjet is the utter simplicity of the installation. It might be worth having gearing.

The gearing issue dissipates if they go with steam turbines. Turbines might be simpler to maintain and cheaper to build as well.

PeterZ wrote:The gearing issue dissipates if they go with steam turbines. Turbines might be simpler to maintain and cheaper to build as well.

As well as being easier to justify under the proscriptions, since all you are doing is using water vapor as wind.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

PeterZ wrote:The gearing issue dissipates if they go with steam turbines. Turbines might be simpler to maintain and cheaper to build as well.

As well as being easier to justify under the proscriptions, since all you are doing is using water vapor as wind.

Yup. Steam turbines powering a waterjet is the way to go with any sort of riverboat.

AirTech wrote: Depending on the rivers, paddle steamers may be better. Both sides in the US Civil War built armored paddle steamers since paddle steamers are more tolerant of shallow water (and easier to repair after a grounding, since all the machinery is above the waterline). Whilst screws are more efficient, if you don't have deep enough water (or dredge regularly) you need to consider the grounding case carefully. Water jet propulsion would be another option as these can be recessed into the hull to minimize damage.

Using screws in a Tunnel in the bottom of the hull is also effective as shown by the many African and Asian Colonial period River Gunboats.

See :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insect-class_gunboat

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly-class_gunboat

Hi ChrisD, guys,

River gunboats and Monitors are some of my favorite subjects, but I have to go with those who've pointed out there are enough already with no sign of any CoGA comparable threat to require building more turreted versions.

I'd also argue the 6" breech loaders are quite superior to the 11" and 15" Dalgrens in terms of range or rate of fire, nor are there crude ironclads for them to defeat with the sheer mass of their projectiles, though some interesting armor piercing types were tested for the Dalgrens, the only possible target would be the screw galleys, and only RFC knows for now whether the new steel 6" shells can penetrate their cast or wrought iron frontal armor.

L

chrisd wrote:

AirTech wrote: Depending on the rivers, paddle steamers may be better. Both sides in the US Civil War built armored paddle steamers since paddle steamers are more tolerant of shallow water (and easier to repair after a grounding, since all the machinery is above the waterline). Whilst screws are more efficient, if you don't have deep enough water (or dredge regularly) you need to consider the grounding case carefully. Water jet propulsion would be another option as these can be recessed into the hull to minimize damage.

Using screws in a Tunnel in the bottom of the hull is also effective as shown by the many African and Asian Colonial period River Gunboats.

See :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insect-class_gunboat

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly-class_gunboat