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GOD EXISTS

For anyone who might want to have a side conversation...you're welcome here!
Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:58 pm

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And yet formal religions certainly exist!
Anyone can prove that. :lol:

HTM

smr wrote:You have to separate the question of God from religion.
Einstein most certainly believed in God
but did not believe in formal religions!
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by cthia   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:58 pm

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The E wrote:
smr wrote:
I can lead a horse to water but I can not make a horse drink the water.

God exists or God does not exist! That idea of God's existence is something that no one person can answer for another individual.


And yet, cthia here claims to be working on proof! Absolute, definitive proof!

I am confused now: Is your view right? cthias?


Do you have a relationship with God? No, then how do you know if he exists or does not.


A relationship implies mutuality. It implies ackknowledgment of the other party. So far, God has not ackknowledged my existance, or the existance of anyone. All I hear is people claiming he exists. So far, no conclusive evidence has been presented showing clear and unambiguous proof that God exists beyond the minds of those who believe in him.

I will ask, Are you open to the idea that God exists?


I am open to anything that can be proven to exist. I am decidedly not open to the deluded ramblings of a few people who have been dead for millennia. Or, for that matter, the deluded ramblings of people who have no idea what "proof" means.

You have to separate the question of God from religion. Einstein most certainly believed in God but did not believe in formal religions!


So what, are you just going to not even ackknowledge that the little story you told was misattributed at best?

Cthia is indeed working on a formal proof.

That, in no way, discredits what smr said. Even if I am successful at a formal proof that God absolutely exists, he still will not exist for some people. Even if GOD himself comes to Earth and introduces himself. Even if HIS SON visits us, we, some of us, will never believe. There are still certain things that one must do. Because in THE END it won't matter if we know GOD, it will only matter if GOD knows us. Lest he will tell us to depart from him for HE never knew us.

Even if GOD exists, because of freedom to choose, GOD may not exist for you.
King James Version
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

You either worship GOD or you worship Satan.

I strongly pray that you allow GOD.

.
Last edited by cthia on Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by Zakharra   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:00 pm

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cthia wrote:
King James Version
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

You either worship Satan or you worship GOD.



Only if you're Christian, Muslim or Jewish.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by cthia   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:13 pm

cthia
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cthia wrote:
King James Version
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

You either worship Satan or you worship GOD.


zakharra wrote: Only if you're Christian, Muslim or Jewish.

On Judgment Day, you need not be Christian, Muslim, Jewish ...

You need be saved.


.
Last edited by cthia on Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by Annachie   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:14 pm

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Zakharra wrote:
cthia wrote:[quote]
King James Version
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

You either worship Satan or you worship GOD.



Only if you're Christian, Muslim or Jewish.[/quote]
More specifically, you either worship my GOD my way or you worship Satan, or at least that's the way it seems.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by Zakharra   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:50 pm

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TN4994 wrote:We hear:
"The bible is inspired by God."

But how much of it is hearsay?
We know modifications to the tales started with the first tellings.



It's kind of hard to take a book like the Bible seriously when it has been changed down through the millennium, through translations/mistranslations of several different languages, language drift and alterations by governments at the time.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by Zakharra   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:54 pm

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cthia wrote:
cthia wrote:
King James Version
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
You either worship Satan or you worship GOD.


zakharra wrote: Only if you're Christian, Muslim or Jewish.

On Judgment Day, you need not be Christian, Muslim, Jewish ...

You need be saved.





I'm not a Christian, Muslim or Jew. I do not want to be saved by them. I will make up my own mind on my beliefs. If I do not believe in the god of those religions, then the rewards or punishments of those gods means absolutely nothing to me. I would not suffer any punishment by refusing to believe (and I think it is extremely arrogant of any of them to claim to be the god of all humans. Or for their followers to claim that) because I would not fall under that deity's beliefs or powers to bless or damn. Your belief of a deity doesn't dictate what I believe: if I don't believe in your god or God, then your Satan or devil/hell will not hold any power over me.


cthia wrote:You either worship GOD or you worship Satan.


As Imaginos1892 says, you're presenting a "false dichotomy". Much like the statement : 'when did you stop beating your wife?' Unless you refuse the premise of the question, the implication of any answer you give is that you -do/did- beat your wife. It's the "false dichotomy". If you do one thing, you must therefore do the other. Because I don't worship in God does not mean I worship the devil/Satan. That would be your belief, cthia, not mine. If I don't worship one aspect of your religion, do not assume the rest of it fits either.
Last edited by Zakharra on Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by TN4994   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:29 pm

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smr wrote:I can lead a horse to water but I can not make a horse drink the water.

God exists or God does not exist! That idea of God's existence is something that no one person can answer for another individual. Do you have a relationship with God? No, then how do you know if he exists or does not. I will ask, Are you open to the idea that God exists?


The E wrote:You are confusing rhetoric with actual proof. There is also a logical leap in there: While the points about Cold and Dark being the absence of energy is correct, it does not follow that evil is the absence of god. The first two are implied by physics, the third point is a matter of philosophy (Theology subsection). It is not a conclusive proof for the existance of god, it's a conclusive proof of the existance of belief in the existance of god in the mind of a young student. There's a difference, and you would do well to learn it.


Possibilities:
No God
One God
Two or more Gods.
Nature
The Force
A dream
Et Al.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by TN4994   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:44 pm

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Zakharra wrote:
TN4994 wrote:We hear:
"The bible is inspired by God."

But how much of it is hearsay?
We know modifications to the tales started with the first tellings.



It's kind of hard to take a book like the Bible seriously when it has been changed down through the millennium, through translations/mistranslations of several different languages, language drift and alterations by governments at the time.

I get strange responses when I point out that the names Lucifer and Satan are not found in the Latin Vulgate.
Also pointing out the hidden antisemitic interpretation of the english texts.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by Imaginos1892   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:03 pm

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TN4994 wrote:
smr wrote:Email contributed by Wilma C., June 23, 2004:

The professor of a university challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student answered bravely, "Yes, he did".

The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil. The student couldn't respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had "proved" that "belief in God" was a fairy tale, and therefore worthless.

Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question? " "Of course" answered the professor.

The young student stood up and asked : "Professor does Cold exists?"

The professor answered, "What kind of question is that? ...Of course the cold exists... haven't you ever been cold?"

The young student answered, "In fact sir, Cold does not exist. According to the laws of Physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absence of heat. Anything is able to be studied as long as it transmits energy (heat). Absolute Zero is the total absence of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don't have body heat or we are not hot."

"And, does Dark exist?", he continued. The professor answered "Of course". This time the student responded, "Again you're wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light. Light can be studied, darkness can not. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tears the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there's lack of light."

Finally, the student asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?" The professor replied, "Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning, we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil."

The student responded, "Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous cases, Evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God's presence in the hearts of man."

After this, the professor bowed down his head, and didn't answer back.

The young man's name was ALBERT EINSTEIN.


Origins: For those looking for a quick answer to the question of whether this item is literally true, we'll state up front that it is not. Nothing remotely like the account related above appears in any biography or article about Albert Einstein, nor is the account congruent with that scientist's expressed views on the subject of religion (in which he generally described himself as an "agnostic" or a "religious nonbeliever"). Einstein's name has simply been inserted into an anecdote created long after his death in order to provide the reading audience with a recognizable figure and thus lend the tale an air of verisimilitude.


TN4994 is right. There is no way Albert Einstein would ever have said something so absolutely stupid. Riots, looting, arson, robbery, rape and murder are all deeds of active evil that can never be derived from any sort of passive "absence of good". It would be less inaccurate to describe "good" as an "absence of evil".

cthia wrote:I will ask, Are you open to the idea that God exists?

Of course, but I require real, verifiable evidence before I will go so far as to actively believe it. On the other hand, if presented with real evidence that your god does not exist, I will be much less open to the idea. I am open to the idea that artificial gravity and hyperspace are possible, but I won't believe those without evidence either.

cthia wrote:You either worship GOD or you worship Satan.

BULLSHIT!

Otherwise known, formally, as the "false dichotomy". Very disappointing; I thought you were better than that. I don't give a rat's ass about either one of them because I do not believe either one exists. Why would I "worship" something that does not exist?

What I believe, and don't believe, does not fit into your narrow preconceptions.
-----------------
Complex questions never have simple answers.
Hell, most simple questions don't have simple answers.
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