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New ship idea

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Re: New ship idea
Post by akira.taylor   » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:19 pm

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Draken wrote:If Beowulf is so terrified about SLN ships, why don't just borrow ships from Manticore?


As I recall, Weber's basic explanation of the situation is that Beowulf kind of has borrowed some Manticoran ships - the fleet at the terminus. If the SLN attacks, that fleet will jump behind the SLN and kill it (or capture it - retreat won't be an option at that point, although I wouldn't care to speculate on the legal details used).

[Weber noted that Honor's concerns about Beowulf's defenses were not "are they good enough" but "will the League realize they're overkill." I think that got corrected in the final version, but not the eARC.]
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Re: New ship idea
Post by Draken   » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:05 pm

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So why don't we start construction of something similar to Hancock prior to First War deep inside league, there should be plenty of old stars and base deep inside enemy supply lines is great.
Why don't we take Mars class ships hull for next generation of Alliance cruisers?
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Re: New ship idea
Post by SWM   » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:13 pm

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Draken wrote:So why don't we start construction of something similar to Hancock prior to First War deep inside league, there should be plenty of old stars and base deep inside enemy supply lines is great.
Why don't we take Mars class ships hull for next generation of Alliance cruisers?

We don't build something like Hancock because Hancock was the product of pre-war military philosophy, which depended on establishing bases as the front moved forward. It involved establishing control of territory, pushing the front lines further and further back. Current Grand Alliance philosophy centers around the deep raid, where there is no real front line and your regularly attack targets deep in enemy territory. There is no need for bases like Hancock now.

As for using Mars-sized hulls for cruisers, David has already said that this is the direction that Manticoran ship developers are thinking.
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Re: New ship idea
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:40 pm

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Draken wrote:Why don't we take Mars class ships hull for next generation of Alliance cruisers?
For what it's worth the current gen of Mantie heavy cruisers, the Sag-Cs (483,000
tons) are already bigger, by a meter or two in all dimensions, than the Mars class (477,250 tons; Mars-B).

But that's quite a bit bigger than the hull size RFC was saying Manticore might be forced to for a minimum survivable DD/CL, in a future where everyone has Mk16 equivalents, (speculated around 300,000 tons)


Were you suggesting it because of it's size, or because you figured it would be easier for Haven to build (and they'd be building the hulls for the next while)?


Haven is likely still be set up to build Mars-class CAs (unless they have some replacement design we haven't seen yet), but there would be so many changes needed to bring it up to even Sag-B or Avalon quality that sharing an outer hull doesn't seem like a real savings.
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Re: New ship idea
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:19 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:Haven is likely still be set up to build Mars-class CAs (unless they have some replacement design we haven't seen yet), but there would be so many changes needed to bring it up to even Sag-B or Avalon quality that sharing an outer hull doesn't seem like a real savings.


Likely, the only real change needed would be Mk-16 or ERM compatible launchers and possibly some additional fire control channels. Havenite electronics are a good bit more capable than anything except Manticoran Electronics, it just isn't as minaturized.

The non-weapons systems -- life support, sails, impellers, nav-aids, etc -- are all perfectly functional and over-engineered in hopes of getting an improved compensator. A manticoran/grayson compensator would be a trivial upgrade to be expected in any new Bolthole product.

Just replacing the missile tubes/magazine to Mk16 standard and compensator would bring a Mars class CA up to slightly better than Sag-B or Avalon, and additional fire-control links and electronics upgrades could bring it up close to a Sag-C standard -- depends on what's required to use a Mk16's off bore capability.
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Re: New ship idea
Post by n7axw   » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:20 pm

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I would think that there might be a couple of different things going on here. First are the hulls that Haven had in its building slips prior to the treaty with Manticore. I would suspect that those would be pretty much finished up as planned. I doubt that there is a great deal they can do to incorporate Manty hardware. But since they will be better than everybody else's stuff, they will still be useful.

The second thing would be after Manticore's R&D team arrives in Bolthole and Sonja and Shannon get their heads together. I would expect some combination designs that will start a bit slowly as Haven's yard capacity is upgraded and modernized that will eventually be a flood of ships of all classes that will be an improvement on both Havenite and Manty designs which will be the product of Sonja's genius and Shannon's hard headed practicality.

Then too, Simoes will probably be there. I wonder if all three of them together might not be able to produce a streak drive.

Don
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Re: New ship idea
Post by stewart   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:12 am

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n7axw wrote: I would expect some combination designs that will start a bit slowly as Haven's yard capacity is upgraded and modernized that will eventually be a flood of ships of all classes that will be an improvement on both Havenite and Manty designs which will be the product of Sonja's genius and Shannon's hard headed practicality.

Then too, Simoes will probably be there. I wonder if all three of them together might not be able to produce a streak drive.

Don


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Can you say Grand Alliance CA's --
Modified MARS-B hull, ERM or Mk-16G missiles, 80-100cm Grasers, and streak drive.

Now all they need is the loci of Mesa / RA hidden wormholes.

-- Stewart
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Re: New ship idea
Post by Draken   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:33 am

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Another good choice of hull for CA would be hull of Warlord or Reliant class cruiser. They're much bigger so we could make something similar to Nike but on smaller scale scale. I'm thinking about 30 launchers, 10 grasers and plenty of point defence.
About similar to Hancock I was thinking about base for raiding ships, somewhere inside Core of League so they could be refueled easily and rearmed if needed. Also creating there small repair shipyard won't be a bad idea, Nike and Agamemnon are tough but somebody could get lucky shot and destroy few nodes.
What about not designing new class of SDs and only upgrade current generation of Haven ships? They're good and only we need to add Keyhole, FTL receiver and emitter, replace EW.
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Re: New ship idea
Post by George J. Smith   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:24 am

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I just hope that whatever is built it is not a camel, (a horse designed by a committee :lol: )
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Re: New ship idea
Post by Draken   » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:35 am

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Is there any info about Warlord or Mars class ships? Armament, speed etc?
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