SLN reserve possibilities

stewart wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:Hi all,

Except that most of the stuff that has been lost was probably broken up and sold on the black market to line some bureaucrat's pocket. I suspect an honest audit of the reserve fleet would show some major discrepancies between what is on the books, and what is actually mothballed.

n7axw wrote:--------------
Above bolding mine --

Why do I find the concept of the SLN and a "honest audit" to be an oxymoron ?

But I basically agree -- like the BF Admirals with their un-manned and un-maintained fleets, they are much like the Silesian non-existant fleets and squadrons.

I suspect that many of the SL DD's / CL's and older CA's are in the hands of "privateers" scattered about the verge and protectorate belts or in non-aligned regions.

-- Stewart

I didn't say I thought it was going to happen - of course honest audit and SLN are an oxymoron. I think that you are right about the smaller units, and that a lot of the SDs have had anything useful already stripped out and sold by said bureaucrats.

Duckk wrote:

This is hilariously wrong. Funny thing about the Kuiper Belt: It's made up of the same stuff that makes up comets. Mostly water ice with a few impurities, to be precise.
Which is not really what you want to build ships.

The second coming of pykrete ships!

Well, Duckk, at least I got it.

n7axw wrote:Hi all,

It's just that given the League's sheer size along with the size of the SLN, what's a few shipyards or collections of SDs to loose track of... Chances are that no one even knows where all the stuff is!

Don

Howdy, don. You forget that the SL is basically nothing but a bureaucracy....and a bureaucracy always has the paperwork--it may take years to find the correct and truthful documents, mind you, but they will exist somewhere in the dross and mis-filings.

After all, that is what Al-Falundi (sp?) is counting on with his little cabal.

fallsfromtrees wrote: Except that most of the stuff that has been lost was probably broken up and sold on the black market to line some bureaucrat's pocket. I suspect an honest audit of the reserve fleet would show some major discrepancies between what is on the books, and what is actually mothballed.

Oh, no question about it. Still, the one thing about bureaucracies is that records exist--they may be buried, obfuscated, and even destroyed, but seldom if ever totally disappear.

And just a thought--If I was going to black market things from the SLN, it would be the smaller stuff, like personal arms that have been sitting in depots for ages (and we know this is happening, see Shadows of Freedom or Shawdows of Saganami).

Black-marketing a ship from mothballs means a record for de-mothballing (and subsequent costs), a release form to move the ship out of the mothballed section (in triplicate, of course), a legal request (with appropriate initials and signatures approving it) for the ship, the Official Approvals for release, the Engineeering and technical studies approving release, the Space-worthiness tests affirming the ship is able to perform, and finally the Official Turnover document(s).

All forged, mind you, but the records will exist for some far-future archiver to discover.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

Hi Hutch,

Oh, I haven't forgotten. It's just that I would expect the info to be buried so deep that nobody could find it. That's the nature of bearucracy, isn't it?

Don

Hutch wrote:

Duckk wrote:The second coming of pykrete ships!

Well, Duckk, at least I got it.

that makes 3 of us - though the 1st coming never really amounted to anything

Theemile wrote:

Duckk wrote:The second coming of pykrete ships!

Hutch wrote:
Well, Duckk, at least I got it.

that makes 3 of us - though the 1st coming never really amounted to anything

and another who got it. Neat concept though.

Hutch wrote:

n7axw wrote:Hi all,

It's just that given the League's sheer size along with the size of the SLN, what's a few shipyards or collections of SDs to loose track of... Chances are that no one even knows where all the stuff is!

Don

Howdy, don. You forget that the SL is basically nothing but a bureaucracy....and a bureaucracy always has the paperwork--it may take years to find the correct and truthful documents, mind you, but they will exist somewhere in the dross and mis-filings.

After all, that is what Al-Falundi (sp?) is counting on with his little cabal.

fallsfromtrees wrote: Except that most of the stuff that has been lost was probably broken up and sold on the black market to line some bureaucrat's pocket. I suspect an honest audit of the reserve fleet would show some major discrepancies between what is on the books, and what is actually mothballed.

Oh, no question about it. Still, the one thing about bureaucracies is that records exist--they may be buried, obfuscated, and even destroyed, but seldom if ever totally disappear.

And just a thought--If I was going to black market things from the SLN, it would be the smaller stuff, like personal arms that have been sitting in depots for ages (and we know this is happening, see Shadows of Freedom or Shawdows of Saganami).

Black-marketing a ship from mothballs means a record for de-mothballing (and subsequent costs), a release form to move the ship out of the mothballed section (in triplicate, of course), a legal request (with appropriate initials and signatures approving it) for the ship, the Official Approvals for release, the Engineeering and technical studies approving release, the Space-worthiness tests affirming the ship is able to perform, and finally the Official Turnover document(s).

All forged, mind you, but the records will exist for some far-future archiver to discover.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

In most cases, although for a lot of ships, there would be a form that says the ship has been decommissioned, and sent to the breakers, only to have it sold intact. Remember that TIY managed to get 14 battle cruisers off the books that way, and then there were the 4 heavy cruisers the Overstegeen encountered at Tilburn. So ships are disappearing and they probably came from the reserve. It might be as simple as the technique used in IFB, where a simple transponder was substituted for the ship, which was removed from the reserve.

Hutch wrote:

Duckk wrote:The second coming of pykrete ships!

Well, Duckk, at least I got it.

I think a lot of us got it and just didn't see any reason to respond. It's not as if anyone is counting who has or hasn't gotten the reference.

SNIPPed the comments from Hutch and Don, about bureaucrats, paperwork, the League, and Technodyne.

Just wanted to add the PNE's reinforcements to the ships FallsfromTrees already listed for Monica and Tiberian.

10 Indefensibles, 5 Bridgeports,16 War Harvests. Only the the BCs are being replaced, so far.

I thought the ships at Monica/Torch were in recent service w/FF? That was supposed to be why their electronics were all front-line. Get rid of the ships with the most time on the clocks? Which just incidentally gives Malign's puppets better equipment than export grade?

Rob

fallsfromtrees wrote:In most cases, although for a lot of ships, there would be a form that says the ship has been decommissioned, and sent to the breakers, only to have it sold intact. Remember that TIY managed to get 14 battle cruisers off the books that way, and then there were the 4 heavy cruisers the Overstegeen encountered at Tilburn. So ships are disappearing and they probably came from the reserve. It might be as simple as the technique used in IFB, where a simple transponder was substituted for the ship, which was removed from the reserve.
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln

fallsfromtrees wrote:In most cases, although for a lot of ships, there would be a form that says the ship has been decommissioned, and sent to the breakers, only to have it sold intact. Remember that TIY managed to get 14 battle cruisers off the books that way, and then there were the 4 heavy cruisers the Overstegeen encountered at Tilburn. So ships are disappearing and they probably came from the reserve. It might be as simple as the technique used in IFB, where a simple transponder was substituted for the ship, which was removed from the reserve.

I would expect that most of the ships actually present in the reserve would be missing one or more of usefull things that are at least in part bolt on outside of the armor, like sensor arrays. A minority of the ships present would be missing vital components that indicate someone opened the armor, like fusion reactors or compensators.