The (not so) welcome Archangels

Hello

First post.

It appears to me from OAR and what the author has revealed here, whatever is under the temple awaiting it's millennial wake up call can only use existing tech available to the command crew at the point arrival, ie not a PICA time limited or otherwise.

The textev and what I have seen posted here also suggests that the surviving Langhornite crew may have been wary of leaving an AI to be woken. If they were happy to leave an AI in charge why not leave it on permanently. It seems likely therefore that the millennial return is that of some of the command crew from extended suspended animation. I think they had the tech for the colonists in transit.

From what I have read the remaining Angels and Archangels cannot have been very numerous. If they had would they not have arranged for a number of the to wake at more regular intervals? To keep an eye on things. My guess therefore is that there were one, two or maybe a mere handful of them to put on ice at the end.

If one or a very few Angels awake in the bowels of the temple I imagine this would be a long way away from the modern inhabitants and they would not reveal themselves until they had assessed what had occurred and readied themselves to arrive in 'majesty' to impress the locals.

Is this a sensible interpretation of the known facts?

Iorwerth wrote:Hello

First post.

It appears to me from OAR and what the author has revealed here, whatever is under the temple awaiting it's millennial wake up call can only use existing tech available to the command crew at the point arrival, ie not a PICA time limited or otherwise.

The textev and what I have seen posted here also suggests that the surviving Langhornite crew may have been wary of leaving an AI to be woken. If they were happy to leave an AI in charge why not leave it on permanently. It seems likely therefore that the millennial return is that of some of the command crew from extended suspended animation. I think they had the tech for the colonists in transit.

From what I have read the remaining Angels and Archangels cannot have been very numerous. If they had would they not have arranged for a number of the to wake at more regular intervals? To keep an eye on things. My guess therefore is that there were one, two or maybe a mere handful of them to put on ice at the end.

If one or a very few Angels awake in the bowels of the temple I imagine this would be a long way away from the modern inhabitants and they would not reveal themselves until they had assessed what had occurred and readied themselves to arrive in 'majesty' to impress the locals.

Is this a sensible interpretation of the known facts?

Croeso i'r fforwm . Eisteddwch yn ôl ac ymlacio . Nid oes gennyf unrhyw syniad os yw hyn yn trosi yn gywir.

Welcome to the forum. Sit back and relax. I have no idea if this translated correctly.

Makes sense that they would scout out the situation first. Unlike Merlin, they probably have a kill switch so they can do electronic surveillance.

I don't have the earlier books in the series in hand (I cataloged them for my church library, and am just too lazy to drive down tonight to get them), but I'm pretty sure I remember Merlin, upon learning of the promise of a millennial visitation by the archangels, musing that 1000 years was too long for successful cryogenics. I believe he thought that a few hundred years was the upper limit.
Am I mistaken?

SCLibrarian wrote:I don't have the earlier books in the series in hand (I cataloged them for my church library, and am just too lazy to drive down tonight to get them), but I'm pretty sure I remember Merlin, upon learning of the promise of a millennial visitation by the archangels, musing that 1000 years was too long for successful cryogenics. I believe he thought that a few hundred years was the upper limit.
Am I mistaken?

Actually, it was more like 50 years or so which had been the upper limit before. Or, restated a bit, that was about as long as it had been previously tried which would mean that anything beyond that would be uncharted territory.

One other comment here: Although the idea is unlikely, a PICA built after the arrival of Safehold cannot be ruled out on the basis of anything we currently know. Owl built a PICA on the basis of existing resources from Nimue's cave. One would think that the command crew would have had AIs and resourses superior to anything available in the cave.

Don

Hi Don,

It was closer to a limit of around 300 years, IIRC.

It has been pointed out that nothing prevents said archangels from taking a couple more successive cryogenic 'trips' after having the chambers refitted each time for 900 years or more likely something nearer the 750 T-year gap.

L

n7axw wrote:

SCLibrarian wrote:I don't have the earlier books in the series in hand (I cataloged them for my church library, and am just too lazy to drive down tonight to get them), but I'm pretty sure I remember Merlin, upon learning of the promise of a millennial visitation by the archangels, musing that 1000 years was too long for successful cryogenics. I believe he thought that a few hundred years was the upper limit.
Am I mistaken?

Actually, it was more like 50 years or so which had been the upper limit before. Or, restated a bit, that was about as long as it had been previously tried which would mean that anything beyond that would be uncharted territory.

One other comment here: Although the idea is unlikely, a PICA built after the arrival of Safehold cannot be ruled out on the basis of anything we currently know. Owl built a PICA on the basis of existing resources from Nimue's cave. One would think that the command crew would have had AIs and resourses superior to anything available in the cave.

Don

Who says an awaking arch angel would be upset at Clyntahn(sp?)?

Said angel is more likely to say how disapointed he is, how the church has to be more vigilant agains the blandishments of Shan-Wei, and then deliver a short, sharp, lesson on geography.

Annachie wrote:Who says an awaking arch angel would be upset at Clyntahn(sp?)?

Said angel is more likely to say how disapointed he is, how the church has to be more vigilant agains the blandishments of Shan-Wei, and then deliver a short, sharp, lesson on geography.

If said awakening archangel has any knowlede of history, he would realize that there is going to be a massive backlash against Clyntahn even if the CoGA wins, and than when that happens, it is possible that everything he stood for is going to get discarded, including the proscriptions. In order to keep that from happening, Clyntahn needs to be stopped now.

Of the two possibilities - leapfrogging cryogenics or building their own PICA - the PICA seems more likely.
The person would most likely need to be unfrozen for a significant period of time just to rebuild his/her health before freezing again. This period might be as long as a year but certainly more than a few weeks. I can't see one of the archangels missing the opportunity to reinforce the faith of the people by not making an appearance during this recovery period. Therefore, I don't think this happened.
As Don pointed out, building a PICA would have been well within the capabilities of the facilities the archangels had at the time, including digitally storing some personalities.
However,I cannot see them creating a PICA without a time limit. These people were the product of a civilization that obviously was phobic (probably with good reason) about leaving a virtually immortal machine with free will kicking about unsupervised and uncontrolled. Therefore, waiting 1000 years before "waking up" the PICA would make sense.
A PICA that had a specific mission and an off switch that would activate at the successful conclusion of that mission? - yeah, I can see that happening.

We lack enough info to know what said Archangel would do, but here's some thoughts.

First, the Archangel likely would be concerned about the Church of Charis.

Second, the Archangel likely would be concerned about gunpowder weapons and the corruption (bribes) that allowed them to exist. Assuming that Merlin & Nimue keep a low profile, he may assume that the approval of steam power is the result of more corruption not evidence of a meddler.

Third, David Weber has commented on the Changes in the Church's structure that gave so much power to the Order of Schueler and the Grand Inquisitor. So the Archangel might strip power from the Order of Schueler and restore much of the power to the other Orders. While the Archangel might not "condemn" Clyntahn, Clyntahn would face a loss of his current power.

Fourth, it is very possible that the Archangel would be concerned about the corruption that has weaken the moral authority of the Main Church.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

Annachie wrote:Who says an awaking arch angel would be upset at Clyntahn(sp?)?

Said angel is more likely to say how disapointed he is, how the church has to be more vigilant agains the blandishments of Shan-Wei, and then deliver a short, sharp, lesson on geography.

If said awakening archangel has any knowlede of history, he would realize that there is going to be a massive backlash against Clyntahn even if the CoGA wins, and than when that happens, it is possible that everything he stood for is going to get discarded, including the proscriptions. In order to keep that from happening, Clyntahn needs to be stopped now.

Annachie wrote:Who says an awaking arch angel would be upset at Clyntahn(sp?)?

Said angel is more likely to say how disapointed he is, how the church has to be more vigilant agains the blandishments of Shan-Wei, and then deliver a short, sharp, lesson on geography.

Well, one thing he would be upset over is the fact that the current Church of God Awaiting is not been following the instructions written by the Archangels, and has not for centuries. The entire governance of the Inquisition has been changed radically from what was intended.