Space Stations, Forts and Strategies

Spherical sidewalls are just as strong as regular sidewalls.

Stations don't bother with impeller wedges because they are not intended to withstand a determined attack. The sidewalls are more intended to protect against accidental damage. A station simply cannot survive a direct attack, and there is no point in trying to do so.

There definitely have been stations destroyed in the Honorverse. In the Battle of Basilisk, Haven attacked and destroyed the stations in orbit of Medusa. They had to destroy the fleet protecting it first. The stations began evacuation even before the defensive fleet was defeated. Haven gave even more time after that for further evacuation, but had to destroy the stations before they were completely emptied so that the Havenite fleet could escape the incoming fleet from the wormhole terminus.

Several other stations were also destroyed on both sides during the first war, if I recall correctly.

Stations defences also depend on where (what System) the station is in.
In CofG we see the Torch raid on the Slaver station. Dam little the station could do against a Frigate and assault shuttles once it was clear that they were comming in. Perhaps well enough against a local pirate assault but not against a real military ship with even Manticore Lite weapons

Same thing at Monica and other places. There were defenses but not really much beyond protection against space debris and not the reach to get out to where the Nasty Kitty and company were holding.

There has been discussion on the Board at least about having sidewalls and bucklers up full-time in the future for the Manticore stations and the need to then create specific (and probably twisty) access paths to the stations as a partial way of keeping missiles and ballistic shots from getting clear shots at the stations


It boils down to: If all you really want to do is destroy a station and don't care about any people on it, you just fling enough ordenence -even purely ballistic stuff like rocks- at it in enough volume to saturate whatever it has for defence..

Particularly in AAC, Sebastian D'Orville used up a few pages thinking about Home Fleet's priorities. The biggest problem with the Manticoran Binary System is needing to defend three planets around two stars and the wormhole junction, all of which have different orbital periods.

Astrology must be a serious subject for Home Fleet.

munroburton wrote:Particularly in AAC, Sebastian D'Orville used up a few pages thinking about Home Fleet's priorities. The biggest problem with the Manticoran Binary System is needing to defend three planets around two stars and the wormhole junction, all of which have different orbital periods.

Astrology must be a serious subject for Home Fleet.

I hope you mean astronomy. I don't want to think about ONI calculating Houses and Signs and Alignments.

SWM wrote:

munroburton wrote:Particularly in AAC, Sebastian D'Orville used up a few pages thinking about Home Fleet's priorities. The biggest problem with the Manticoran Binary System is needing to defend three planets around two stars and the wormhole junction, all of which have different orbital periods.

Astrology must be a serious subject for Home Fleet.

I hope you mean astronomy. I don't want to think about ONI calculating Houses and Signs and Alignments.

Astrology - the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world.

Depending on the opponent's goals, they could predict where the attacks would come. A full-out attack might come during the junction-ManticoreA-Manticore-Sphinx alignment, making use of the RZ being out of position. A passing raid on Gryphon might come when Sphinx and Manticore are on the far side of ManticoreA relative to ManticoreB. And so on.

Of course, it'd be hard to scientifically investigate this, as there has only been three conventional attacks on the system in its entire history and two of those were unexpected.

However, the RMN's astrologers were bang-on with Filareta. Doesn't hurt that they knew he was coming with two months' notice.

fallsfromtrees wrote:It isn't the attack that was so devastating. It was the sneak attack that wasn't even spotted until it actually occurred. Remember that all of the stations were supposed to have evacuation drills (and Weyland was in the midst of one of the drills when the attack went in), and the supposition was there would be sufficient time to evacuate the stations in the event that it appeared an attack was going to overwhelm them.

You can see in AAC how the evacuation of the civilian stations at Sphinx was executed as the massive RHN fleet cruised into missile range. Oh, wait, nevermind.

SWM wrote:
Spherical sidewalls are just as strong as regular sidewalls.

Stations don't bother with impeller wedges because they are not intended to withstand a determined attack. The sidewalls are more intended to protect against accidental damage. A station simply cannot survive a direct attack, and there is no point in trying to do so.

There definitely have been stations destroyed in the Honorverse. In the Battle of Basilisk, Haven attacked and destroyed the stations in orbit of Medusa. They had to destroy the fleet protecting it first. The stations began evacuation even before the defensive fleet was defeated. Haven gave even more time after that for further evacuation, but had to destroy the stations before they were completely emptied so that the Havenite fleet could escape the incoming fleet from the wormhole terminus.

Several other stations were also destroyed on both sides during the first war, if I recall correctly.

If spherical sidewalls are just as strong as regular sidewalls, please forgive me. (And I do trust you SWM more than this site), I misquoted. Well, actually, I properly quoted, but incorrectly referenced. The quote did not come from a wiki or another (acceptably reliable) source as I incorrectly stated. It came from another site, which may have miscontrued facts.
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=121988

I couldn't remember other stations being destroyed. Thanks.

The reason I thought dedicated LACs and perhaps CLACs as station screening elements come from the definition of "dedicated." I remember battles where the original intercepting force met with a bigger, more powerful force and was overtaken and blown right by, leaving nothing between them and possible targets. But I suppose, that if an opposing force is too hot for existing available forces, these dedicated LACs/CLACs would/could be ordered to deploy outside their assigned bailiwick.

But again, as already stated, ballistic components are problematic.

I know that non-detection makes my suggestion a moot point in the case of the MALignment. But we do expect Manticore will solve that problem. Besides, there is still the problem of an 800lb gorilla, who- although may have lost a couple hundred lbs - may still prove to be quite formidable if the SLN has their own version of a Foraker and a Hemphill. Also, we as readers, know that the clock is ticking down for the SLN, but the combatants do not. Surely Manticore doesn't want to duplicate Haven's mistake in planning "The Short, Victorious War," that was neither.


The civilians represent current and long term potential tech and capability. Possibly irreplaceable. Seems extra protection of Hemphill's techs is warranted.

I just envisioned - possible or no - space stations that can be completely encapsulated within sidewalls. Whether it would be realistic to also encompass any existing ships in various stages of completion as well, or if that makes it too ambitious is also beyond me.

Anyways, it was just a thought of an Administrative Admiral.

If station is close to main fleet shipyard or big base of fleet, there isn't need for heavy defence. For example in Haven system there wasn't any static defence, but there is 200+ SDs. Static defence is very easy to destroy, Hades had a lot of support infrastructure for fleet. But his static defence were terrible and they could be easily destroyed using .99c attack and fleet can't be destroyed using that kind of attack. Why we need design new class of LACs?

Draken wrote:
If station is close to main fleet shipyard or big base of fleet, there isn't need for heavy defence. For example in Haven system there wasn't any static defence, but there is 200+ SDs. Static defence is very easy to destroy, Hades had a lot of support infrastructure for fleet. But his static defence were terrible and they could be easily destroyed using .99c attack and fleet can't be destroyed using that kind of attack. Why we need design new class of LACs?

I never mentioned a need for a new class of LAC. If the tactic is feasible, current LACs will do just fine.

But the .99c attack point is well taken.

Draken wrote:If station is close to main fleet shipyard or big base of fleet, there isn't need for heavy defence. For example in Haven system there wasn't any static defence, but there is 200+ SDs.

That is completely untrue. You should read "A Whiff of Grapeshot" before pretending that you know what you are talking about.


"Liberty and Equality massed fourteen million tons each, more than twice the weight of a superdreadnaught like the Rousseau, and they were armored and armed to match. Ordinarily a close-range engagement would crush the ship like a food pack under a power-armor boot. Their problem was that they couldn't approach the planetary surface as closely as a mobile ship. Everything they could throw towards Rousseau would also be thrown towards the planetary surface where their families lived. Even fanatics would hesitate at that prospect."