System Defense

Why Hades was using stationary defenses? It even didn't have any fortresses and no scouts for them? How should look well designed defense system? Why a lot of planets is counting on their fleet rather than on mines and immobile defense platforms?
Why around Junction fort there were tons of pods in space, isn't it safer to deploy them when you need them?

In order:

Draken wrote:Why Hades was using stationary defenses? It even didn't have any fortresses and no scouts for them?

It was using stationary defenses because the Statesec people who designed it were too paranoid to consult anyone with enough naval/tactical knowhow to understand how to do it properly.

How should look well designed defense system? Why a lot of planets is counting on their fleet rather than on mines and immobile defense platforms?

Well, for a properly defended system you can probably start with Manticore. Just ask Filareta. Or his ghost.

As for why a fleet is such an important consideration, look no further than the discussion about why defending Hades with purely static defenses was a bad idea. To put it shortly, fixed defenses can't dodge. Thus, unless the fixed defenses are *extremely* stealthy, *extremely* well dispersed, and *extremely* long range (i.e. the shoals of system defense apollo pods deployed around the Manticore system), while they can be a great *supplement* for a properly handled defending fleet, they can never *substitute* for one.

Why around Junction fort there were tons of pods in space, isn't it safer to deploy them when you need them?

Safer, but slower. The junction forts need to be able to react on a moment's notice since attacking forces can drop out of hyper practically on top of the junction. Deploying pods takes *time*. And while as far as I am aware we have no statements on this either way, it also seems plausible to me that they may have intentionally set out to use pre-deployed pods to cut down on the number of pods the forts need to stow internally. That would leave more internal volume for fire control, missile defense, EW, armor, and all the other nasties those forts are jammed with.

MuonNeutrino wrote:As for why a fleet is such an important consideration, look no further than the discussion about why defending Hades with purely static defenses was a bad idea. To put it shortly, fixed defenses can't dodge.

While this is true, proper Honorverse orbital fortresses (which is not what Hades had) are not truly 'fixed'. They're essentially oversized, slow, sublight SDs.

drothgery wrote:

MuonNeutrino wrote:As for why a fleet is such an important consideration, look no further than the discussion about why defending Hades with purely static defenses was a bad idea. To put it shortly, fixed defenses can't dodge.

While this is true, proper Honorverse orbital fortresses (which is not what Hades had) are not truly 'fixed'. They're essentially oversized, slow, sublight SDs.

No one has suggested otherwise. The question was why Hades used fixed defenses.

drothgery wrote:

MuonNeutrino wrote:As for why a fleet is such an important consideration, look no further than the discussion about why defending Hades with purely static defenses was a bad idea. To put it shortly, fixed defenses can't dodge.

While this is true, proper Honorverse orbital fortresses (which is not what Hades had) are not truly 'fixed'. They're essentially oversized, slow, sublight SDs.

Granted, but - and this is admittedly a tangent - is that movement enough to deter far more mobile, and hypercapable for FTL nipping around the outer system, starships from sending ballistic strikes tearing around the system?

The slightly mobile fortresses themselves, if they're aware of the attacks coming in, would be able to move about a bit to evade them, but they don't seem mobile enough to interfere with the attackers, or defend stuff like planets and space stations with no drives at all.

JeffEngel wrote:Granted, but - and this is admittedly a tangent - is that movement enough to deter far more mobile, and hypercapable for FTL nipping around the outer system, starships from sending ballistic strikes tearing around the system?

The slightly mobile fortresses themselves, if they're aware of the attacks coming in, would be able to move about a bit to evade them, but they don't seem mobile enough to interfere with the attackers, or defend stuff like planets and space stations with no drives at all.

Yes, fortresses are mobile enough to deter ships sending in ballistic strikes against the fortresses. They were never intended to interfere with the attackers if they keep their distance, except perhaps by controlling system defense missiles. Nor are fortresses intended to protect a planet against a ballistic attack.

Not true.

Forts have everything an SD has, except FAR MORE of them as 25% of the same mass ship is not dedicated to Hyper generators, compensators, giant impellers with alpha nodes. Either go with reaction drives and spherical sidewalls, or beta node impellers for moving around at 50-150g or so.

More:
Pods
CM tubes,
PDLC,
EW,
Stronger Sidewalls,
Tougher Radiation Shielding,
Thicker Armor
Increased Fire Control Channels

So, yes, forts, like SD's and all other naval vessels are able to interdict c fractional missiles. Just becomes harder as the powered down missile comes in closer to the speed of light.

Draken wrote:Why Hades was using stationary defenses? It even didn't have any fortresses and no scouts for them? How should look well designed defense system? Why a lot of planets is counting on their fleet rather than on mines and immobile defense platforms?
Why around Junction fort there were tons of pods in space, isn't it safer to deploy them when you need them?

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Most of the other comments here have hit several good points, but primarily
1) Hades main defense was same as Bolthole -- no one knew where it was -- no charts, no references, no one can find it to attack.
2) InSec and StateSec were, for their own reasons, distrustful (understatement) of anyone not their own.
3) Both agencies were unwilling to consult with the PN for tactical advise (among other reasons there were PN personnel there).
4) Both agencies put in static defenses that were good for their type when installed, but all remote controlled from Styx. (single point of failure)

-- Stewart

It would appear that Hades was set up more to prevent a break-out than resist an attack. The planitary control did use the minefield to kill the boat that Harkness sent out to appear to be people escaping from the ship..

I agdree that State Security took an odd view of protecting the system. Everything was a fixed defense: the minefield, the missle battery on the moon, the automated fuel extraction and tank farm out at the refueling point. That fuel production complex was not defended in any way that we were told.

It is not like SS didn't have any ships it could use as a patrol within the system, they had CAs and all sorts of smaller ships. Even a DD in system would have been a major factor. A single hyper-capable warship with the scheduled DB messaging system would have put a major crimp in what Honor ended up doing. It would not have made any difference in getting the RMN people to the ground and hiding with the two assault shuttles (any SS warship would remained out on patrol rather than come in -and within the minefield- to the Trepes when she was preparing to discharge its cargo. It would, however, been able to be contacted by the SS forces on the ground during the ground attack and then take up a position to interdict any passage out of the minefield if those on the ground tried to get back out into the system.

Even if the assault on the SS command area was successful without both the DB within the minefield (which is was) and so any warship out in the system being directly notified of the attack, they would have had to deal with off the planet and capturing or destroying boththe DB and the system warship before they can move forward with getting anybody out of the system.

SS, for all it's paranoia, is essentialy a very arrogant and It does provide a mechanism for the way Honor does make the escape happen so think plot device.

Brigade XO wrote:It is not like SS didn't have any ships it could use as a patrol within the system, they had CAs and all sorts of smaller ships.

But StateSec didn't build the defenses of Hades, InNec did, and InSec didn't have any warships. StateSec just assumed that since InSec hadn't had any escapes or rescues, the Hades defenses were adequate. As noted above, (and several times in textev,) neither agency trusted the Navy enough to consult experts.