Church Financial status

Church is losing money very fast, army isn't cheap it's like a black hole which will eat any money it can find. Haven is different thing, compared to CoGa it looks healthy. Church need any money and can't get it easily, Haven hadn't that problem, they have money, but they spend it on useless things. Unless Church want to kill his economy using taxes and fees, he has one option making as many coins as possible and don't think about inflation. It's longer term suicide but for 1-3 years it would be OK, but not great, after that time inflation would be skyrocketing.
Another problem for Church is that Siddamark, Charis, Chisholm, Emerald, Corrisand, Tarot aren't big, but are very very rich and cash from them was a big chunk of they income. They have a lot of money in vaults but it will be burned in few months term.

Draken wrote:Church is losing money very fast, army isn't cheap it's like a black hole which will eat any money it can find. Haven is different thing, compared to CoGa it looks healthy. Church need any money and can't get it easily, Haven hadn't that problem, they have money, but they spend it on useless things. Unless Church want to kill his economy using taxes and fees, he has one option making as many coins as possible and don't think about inflation. It's longer term suicide but for 1-3 years it would be OK, but not great, after that time inflation would be skyrocketing.
Another problem for Church is that Siddamark, Charis, Chisholm, Emerald, Corrisand, Tarot aren't big, but are very very rich and cash from them was a big chunk of they income. They have a lot of money in vaults but it will be burned in few months term.

I disagree. Remember, Duchairn is in charge of the CoG finances. He is extremely capable. The primary reason the CoG is in such dire financial straits is due to *Clyntahn's* policies, such as his insistence on closing mainland ports to Charisan shipping and his decision to launch the Sword of Schueler against Siddarmark (which Duchairn did not know about and therefore could not plan for).

The point I'm trying to make is that Duchairn is a financial wizard. So far he has been forced to play catch-up, but he has still managed to keep the CoG afloat. I don't think he is going to passively stand by and blow all of the CoG reserves without taking action. I expect he will take steps to either increase revenue or to grow the mainland realms economies before the CoG goes bankrupt. In fact, I think he will do both.

Henry Brown wrote:

Draken wrote:Church is losing money very fast, army isn't cheap it's like a black hole which will eat any money it can find. Haven is different thing, compared to CoGa it looks healthy. Church need any money and can't get it easily, Haven hadn't that problem, they have money, but they spend it on useless things. Unless Church want to kill his economy using taxes and fees, he has one option making as many coins as possible and don't think about inflation. It's longer term suicide but for 1-3 years it would be OK, but not great, after that time inflation would be skyrocketing.
Another problem for Church is that Siddamark, Charis, Chisholm, Emerald, Corrisand, Tarot aren't big, but are very very rich and cash from them was a big chunk of they income. They have a lot of money in vaults but it will be burned in few months term.

I disagree. Remember, Duchairn is in charge of the CoG finances. He is extremely capable. The primary reason the CoG is in such dire financial straits is due to *Clyntahn's* policies, such as his insistence on closing mainland ports to Charisan shipping and his decision to launch the Sword of Schueler against Siddarmark (which Duchairn did not know about and therefore could not plan for).

The point I'm trying to make is that Duchairn is a financial wizard. So far he has been forced to play catch-up, but he has still managed to keep the CoG afloat. I don't think he is going to passively stand by and blow all of the CoG reserves without taking action. I expect he will take steps to either increase revenue or to grow the mainland realms economies before the CoG goes bankrupt. In fact, I think he will do both.

I agree that Duchairm is very capable. But he is running out of resourses to be capable with. As for growing the mainland economies, what is he going to do? Cut taxes while the Jihiad grows increasingly desperate? Tax harder until people rebel? Cut pensions in Dohlar? Stop feeding people in Zion?

Really about all that left is a strict command economy in which all resourses over subsistence are devoted to the war and I don't think the church can pull that off even with the inquisition getting behind and pushing.

Duchairn is running out of options.

Don

I also do not think the Church will go bankrupt in the sense that it runs out of money. Duchairn is very capable. More importantly, the Church will fund its efforts as long it has a sufficiently large enough population core to sustain the war effort.

The Church can always issue more IOU paper money.

Also, you can debase gold and silver coinage by adding copper and other metals to reduce the amount of precious metal in each coin.

I do not see evidence that anyone on Charis (i) has ever heard of a command economy, (ii) has any idea how to implement one, or (iii) has the technical resources to attempt to make one work however poorly.

n7axw wrote:

Draken wrote:Church is losing money very fast, army isn't cheap it's like a black hole which will eat any money it can find. Haven is different thing, compared to CoGa it looks healthy. Church need any money and can't get it easily, Haven hadn't that problem, they have money, but they spend it on useless things. Unless Church want to kill his economy using taxes and fees, he has one option making as many coins as possible and don't think about inflation. It's longer term suicide but for 1-3 years it would be OK, but not great, after that time inflation would be skyrocketing.
Another problem for Church is that Siddamark, Charis, Chisholm, Emerald, Corrisand, Tarot aren't big, but are very very rich and cash from them was a big chunk of they income. They have a lot of money in vaults but it will be burned in few months term.

Henry Brown wrote:I disagree. Remember, Duchairn is in charge of the CoG finances. He is extremely capable. The primary reason the CoG is in such dire financial straits is due to *Clyntahn's* policies, such as his insistence on closing mainland ports to Charisan shipping and his decision to launch the Sword of Schueler against Siddarmark (which Duchairn did not know about and therefore could not plan for).

The point I'm trying to make is that Duchairn is a financial wizard. So far he has been forced to play catch-up, but he has still managed to keep the CoG afloat. I don't think he is going to passively stand by and blow all of the CoG reserves without taking action. I expect he will take steps to either increase revenue or to grow the mainland realms economies before the CoG goes bankrupt. In fact, I think he will do both.

I agree that Duchairm is very capable. But he is running out of resourses to be capable with. As for growing the mainland economies, what is he going to do? Cut taxes while the Jihiad grows increasingly desperate? Tax harder until people rebel? Cut pensions in Dohlar? Stop feeding people in Zion?

Really about all that left is a strict command economy in which all resourses over subsistence are devoted to the war and I don't think the church can pull that off even with the inquisition getting behind and pushing.

Duchairn is running out of options.

Don

Well, when Dohlar is knocked out of the war, yes, he will stop paying the pensions in Dohlar. The problem is that he is running out of economies to grow. Charis, Chisholm, Corisande, Tarot, Siddemark, and very soon now Dohlar, Silkiah, and Desnair may well not be too far behind. Basically leaves only the most primitive of economies - that of Harchong.

n7axw wrote:

Henry Brown wrote:I disagree. Remember, Duchairn is in charge of the CoG finances. He is extremely capable. The primary reason the CoG is in such dire financial straits is due to *Clyntahn's* policies, such as his insistence on closing mainland ports to Charisan shipping and his decision to launch the Sword of Schueler against Siddarmark (which Duchairn did not know about and therefore could not plan for).

The point I'm trying to make is that Duchairn is a financial wizard. So far he has been forced to play catch-up, but he has still managed to keep the CoG afloat. I don't think he is going to passively stand by and blow all of the CoG reserves without taking action. I expect he will take steps to either increase revenue or to grow the mainland realms economies before the CoG goes bankrupt. In fact, I think he will do both.

I agree that Duchairm is very capable. But he is running out of resourses to be capable with. As for growing the mainland economies, what is he going to do? Cut taxes while the Jihiad grows increasingly desperate? Tax harder until people rebel? Cut pensions in Dohlar? Stop feeding people in Zion?

Really about all that left is a strict command economy in which all resourses over subsistence are devoted to the war and I don't think the church can pull that off even with the inquisition getting behind and pushing.

Duchairn is running out of options.

Don

What I think is going to happen is that the mainland is going to adopt some of the civilian innovations that Charis has introduced. So far, the mainland has been quick to adopt military innovations such as improved artillery or rifled muskets. But they have lagged behind in adopting non-military stuff, like the new spinning jennies and powered looms which Charis uses for textiles. I think Duchairn will start pushing for this kind of thing to be introduced. Clyntahn might not like the idea, but he will approve it to support his Jihad. And once the innovations are approved, I'd expect the mainland realms to experience an economic boost. And this will increase the mainland's ability to wage war against Charis

Henry Brown wrote:

Henry Brown wrote:I disagree. Remember, Duchairn is in charge of the CoG finances. He is extremely capable. The primary reason the CoG is in such dire financial straits is due to *Clyntahn's* policies, such as his insistence on closing mainland ports to Charisan shipping and his decision to launch the Sword of Schueler against Siddarmark (which Duchairn did not know about and therefore could not plan for).

The point I'm trying to make is that Duchairn is a financial wizard. So far he has been forced to play catch-up, but he has still managed to keep the CoG afloat. I don't think he is going to passively stand by and blow all of the CoG reserves without taking action. I expect he will take steps to either increase revenue or to grow the mainland realms economies before the CoG goes bankrupt. In fact, I think he will do both.

n7axw wrote:I agree that Duchairm is very capable. But he is running out of resourses to be capable with. As for growing the mainland economies, what is he going to do? Cut taxes while the Jihiad grows increasingly desperate? Tax harder until people rebel? Cut pensions in Dohlar? Stop feeding people in Zion?

Really about all that left is a strict command economy in which all resourses over subsistence are devoted to the war and I don't think the church can pull that off even with the inquisition getting behind and pushing.

Duchairn is running out of options.

Don

What I think is going to happen is that the mainland is going to adopt some of the civilian innovations that Charis has introduced. So far, the mainland has been quick to adopt military innovations such as improved artillery or rifled muskets. But they have lagged behind in adopting non-military stuff, like the new spinning jennies and powered looms which Charis uses for textiles. I think Duchairn will start pushing for this kind of thing to be introduced. Clyntahn might not like the idea, but he will approve it to support his Jihad. And once the innovations are approved, I'd expect the mainland realms to experience an economic boost. And this will increase the mainland's ability to wage war against Charis

The problem is that Duchairn is running out of mainland economies to boost. Very shortly he is only going to have Harchong, and as the most conservative of the realms, the least likely to adopt anything from the heretics.

fallsfromtrees wrote:
Well, when Dohlar is knocked out of the war, yes, he will stop paying the pensions in Dohlar. The problem is that he is running out of economies to grow. Charis, Chisholm, Corisande, Tarot, Siddemark, and very soon now Dohlar, Silkiah, and Desnair may well not be too far behind. Basically leaves only the most primitive of economies - that of Harchong.

The church hasn't really been growing economies except when acquiring Charisian merchandise through Siddarmark and Silkiah.

Now it is reduced to looting them.

Don

n7axw wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:
Well, when Dohlar is knocked out of the war, yes, he will stop paying the pensions in Dohlar. The problem is that he is running out of economies to grow. Charis, Chisholm, Corisande, Tarot, Siddemark, and very soon now Dohlar, Silkiah, and Desnair may well not be too far behind. Basically leaves only the most primitive of economies - that of Harchong.

The church hasn't really been growing economies except when acquiring Charisian merchandise through Siddarmark and Silkiah.

Now it is reduced to looting them.

Don

Right. And is rapidly being reduced to looting the most primitive of the continental economies.