(SPOILERS) Too worried about waking up Dad?

schoeffelk wrote:I know this has been discussed previously ad nauseum.
If the 'sleeper' under the Temple is a PICA, they had a 3 day timer before they went dormant. If it is a PICA it has a limited time to act. There was only one master cybercist and he supported Shan-Wei. I would doubt that it was Langhorne or the PICA would have to have been placed prior to the retaliation with the pocket nuke. This is more evident if the Temple in Zion was placed where the prior headquarters was, to show the power of God. Scheuler was still alive when he made his hologram for the "Key" and set his back up plan in motion. MWW has as many layers as he needs to move his storyline along the way he wants. Seijin Koty is just another example of this. May our favorite author continue to write for years so we can enjoy his imagination.

Cheopis wrote:

schoeffelk wrote:I know this has been discussed previously ad nauseum.
If the 'sleeper' under the Temple is a PICA, they had a 3 day timer before they went dormant. If it is a PICA it has a limited time to act. There was only one master cybercist and he supported Shan-Wei. I would doubt that it was Langhorne or the PICA would have to have been placed prior to the retaliation with the pocket nuke. This is more evident if the Temple in Zion was placed where the prior headquarters was, to show the power of God. Scheuler was still alive when he made his hologram for the "Key" and set his back up plan in motion. MWW has as many layers as he needs to move his storyline along the way he wants. Seijin Koty is just another example of this. May our favorite author continue to write for years so we can enjoy his imagination.

Ah, but an AI / Recording of an archangel does not need to be a PICA. Owl was able to make a recorder. Langhorne had at least one super secret team in place. Nahrmann does not have a limited lifespan in the virtual world, I'm pretty sure.

fallsfromtrees wrote: quote="Cheopis" quote="schoeffelk" I know this has been discussed previously ad nauseum.
If the 'sleeper' under the Temple is a PICA, they had a 3 day timer before they went dormant. If it is a PICA it has a limited time to act. There was only one master cybercist and he supported Shan-Wei. I would doubt that it was Langhorne or the PICA would have to have been placed prior to the retaliation with the pocket nuke. This is more evident if the Temple in Zion was placed where the prior headquarters was, to show the power of God. Scheuler was still alive when he made his hologram for the "Key" and set his back up plan in motion. MWW has as many layers as he needs to move his storyline along the way he wants. Seijin Koty is just another example of this. May our favorite author continue to write for years so we can enjoy his imagination. /quote

Ah, but an AI / Recording of an archangel does not need to be a PICA. Owl was able to make a recorder. Langhorne had at least one super secret team in place. Nahrmann does not have a limited lifespan in the virtual world, I'm pretty sure. /quote
Except of course that it has been implied that he is going to turn himself off when Olyvia dies.

Cheopis wrote:Ah, but an AI / Recording of an archangel does not need to be a PICA. Owl was able to make a recorder. Langhorne had at least one super secret team in place. Nahrmann does not have a limited lifespan in the virtual world, I'm pretty sure.

DrakBibliophile wrote:According to the conversation between Merlin and Nahrmahn (after he woke up in VR land), VR personalities do have a "limited lifespan".

Quote From Midst Toil And Tribulation

“It goes a little further than that for some people. Some virtual personalities simply can’t handle the knowledge that they’re only recordings of someone else—copies, not the original. So while some personalities become terminally bored, weary, of a ‘pocket universe’ that doesn’t contain anybody else ‘real’ aside from whatever other virtual personalities’ve been loaded to it, others withdraw into themselves and eventually shut down completely. Effectively, they go catatonic and withdraw from the only reality they have because it isn’t really reality at all, as far as they’re concerned.”

End Quote

So while there might be a "stored Archangel" out there, it likely hasn't been active for "all this time".

First, there's the problem of why did the Virtual Archangel allow the Church to go wrong.

Second, the Virtual Archangel would not survive in Virtual Space for so long especially when you realize that time in Virtual Space passes very quickly compared to time in Human Space.

Cheopis wrote:Ah, but an AI / Recording of an archangel does not need to be a PICA. Owl was able to make a recorder. Langhorne had at least one super secret team in place. Nahrmann does not have a limited lifespan in the virtual world, I'm pretty sure.

Randomiser wrote: quote="DrakBibliophile" According to the conversation between Merlin and Nahrmahn (after he woke up in VR land), VR personalities do have a "limited lifespan".

Quote From Midst Toil And Tribulation

“It goes a little further than that for some people. Some virtual personalities simply can’t handle the knowledge that they’re only recordings of someone else—copies, not the original. So while some personalities become terminally bored, weary, of a ‘pocket universe’ that doesn’t contain anybody else ‘real’ aside from whatever other virtual personalities’ve been loaded to it, others withdraw into themselves and eventually shut down completely. Effectively, they go catatonic and withdraw from the only reality they have because it isn’t really reality at all, as far as they’re concerned.”

End Quote

So while there might be a "stored Archangel" out there, it likely hasn't been active for "all this time".

First, there's the problem of why did the Virtual Archangel allow the Church to go wrong.

Second, the Virtual Archangel would not survive in Virtual Space for so long especially when you realize that time in Virtual Space passes very quickly compared to time in Human Space.


quote="Cheopis"
Ah, but an AI / Recording of an archangel does not need to be a PICA. Owl was able to make a recorder. Langhorne had at least one super secret team in place. Nahrmann does not have a limited lifespan in the virtual world, I'm pretty sure. /quote /quote

Don, NB Merlin is pointing out why the virtual life isn't for everyone. He isn't saying that all or even a majority of VRs have these problems. We don't know what the fail rate is.

On your second point, I would have thought that the passage of time in a VR could be anything you set it to be between the maximum the processor can handle and zero depending on what proportion of the cycles your program gets. And you can vary it as much or as little as you like. 1 subjective day awake per year makes it just about 3 years subjective since the WATF. Or whatever, you get the idea. One of the reasons I don't really see it being a VR which returns millenially. Just what it is though is beyond me.

n7axw wrote:On the return of the archangels...

A PICA that was built on Terra has been ruled out by RFC. A PICA that was built after arrival on Safehold in possible, but unlikely due to anti tech bias of archangels, although one does have to remember that the same bunch did build TF tech into the temple, didn't they? So maybe a home grown PICA wouldn't be out of the question...

Cyro has to be pretty much ruled out since its expected longivity was only about 40-50 yr.

What's left would be either an AI or some sort of VR, either of which could be set up to awaken on a timer the way Nimue did...And, of course, they could have built the PICA after all...

Don

n7axw wrote:On the return of the archangels...

A PICA that was built on Terra has been ruled out by RFC. A PICA that was built after arrival on Safehold in possible, but unlikely due to anti tech bias of archangels, although one does have to remember that the same bunch did build TF tech into the temple, didn't they? So maybe a home grown PICA wouldn't be out of the question...

Cyro has to be pretty much ruled out since its expected longivity was only about 40-50 yr.

What's left would be either an AI or some sort of VR, either of which could be set up to awaken on a timer the way Nimue did...And, of course, they could have built the PICA after all...

Don

Randomiser wrote:

n7axw wrote:On the return of the archangels...

A PICA that was built on Terra has been ruled out by RFC. A PICA that was built after arrival on Safehold in possible, but unlikely due to anti tech bias of archangels, although one does have to remember that the same bunch did build TF tech into the temple, didn't they? So maybe a home grown PICA wouldn't be out of the question...

Cyro has to be pretty much ruled out since its expected longivity was only about 40-50 yr.

What's left would be either an AI or some sort of VR, either of which could be set up to awaken on a timer the way Nimue did...And, of course, they could have built the PICA after all...

Don

I'm sure an RFC post definitively ruled out Langhorne having a PICA built as totally alien to his intentions. I'm pretty sure the same post ruled out anyone on his side building a PICA for the same reason.