(SPOILERS) Too worried about waking up Dad?

SWM wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:Reload time can't have been that bad. OAR says that Armageddon Reef (Alexandria enclave) was hit had least 7 times. If there were only 6 cells....

There are several problems with that statement. First, The text doesn't say that there are only 6 cells. It says that there are 6 cells loaded and ready to fire right now. Second, the entire system was modified sometime after the Angelic wars, so we don't know what changes have been made or what the system looked like before.

True statement - unwarranted assumption on my part.

The current OBS has been modified from the one that destroyed the Alexandria enclave.

See http://www.davidweber.net/faqs/index/series:6 Topic "Why was Kau-yung surprised by the orbital bombardment system?"

Quote

the original OBS was a relatively simple (and cheap) system built for a single purpose --- to take out the entire Alexandria Enclave in a single strike

End Quote

fallsfromtrees wrote:

SWM wrote:

There are several problems with that statement. First, The text doesn't say that there are only 6 cells. It says that there are 6 cells loaded and ready to fire right now. Second, the entire system was modified sometime after the Angelic wars, so we don't know what changes have been made or what the system looked like before.

True statement - unwarranted assumption on my part.

Some thoughts:

1. One thing that I noticed we are missing in the text so far is a description of the pass phrases that are part of the Wylsnn family history, or any indication of what would be available once the systems were activated. Seems odd to me that there is no indication of what can be done once you have turned the system on. Or are people expected to read the instructions at that point. (I suppose you could argue than an AI could help at this point, but it would take time to learn to talk to it.)

2. Could there be a genetic component to the activation? You must be a proper descendant to actually activate the system? Why else require a physical contact with the system?

3. We still have more reasons to believe that the Wlysnn controls are NOT related to the OBS than we do that they are related. Nor is it likely that they have any affect on the scheduled wake up - which I point out is NOT necessarily related to the temple at all.

4. I assume that one reason that there has not been an effort to start building an asteroid belt manufacturing capacity (for use later) is that it is not clear what the OBS or the monster under the bed (who wakes up in 20 years) will do.

5. I would hope that the mining tailings are being used to stock up on difficult to obtain materials, but it is not clear that this is the case. (Of course, certain materials may not be present in the coal, iron, and the like tailings.)

SPOILER

6. It is clear that the later OBS system is capable of fine grain strikes under manual control. Presumably this is the existing system. It is not at all clear that these controls need to be temple based.

7. The remaining archangels withdrew to the dawn star if I recall correctly; I suspect this is either the OBS or some other orbital (at the time) component - not the Hamilcar per RFC - that could potentially be returning from a large, slow orbit. Might be a good idea to allocate a few SNARCs for monitoring for objects coming from the Oort cloud.

8. I agree that there should be some effort made to construct additional AI systems, especially as OWL seems to be reaching capacity limits in some areas.

Hildum wrote:Some thoughts:

1. One thing that I noticed we are missing in the text so far is a description of the pass phrases that are part of the Wylsnn family history, or any indication of what would be available once the systems were activated. Seems odd to me that there is no indication of what can be done once you have turned the system on. Or are people expected to read the instructions at that point. (I suppose you could argue than an AI could help at this point, but it would take time to learn to talk to it.)

There has been no indication that any of that exists. My own impression is that there are no passphrases and that Wylsynn's don't know what it will do.

2. Could there be a genetic component to the activation? You must be a proper descendant to actually activate the system? Why else require a physical contact with the system?

Probably. That's the assumption most people here have made in the past.

3. We still have more reasons to believe that the Wlysnn controls are NOT related to the OBS than we do that they are related. Nor is it likely that they have any affect on the scheduled wake up - which I point out is NOT necessarily related to the temple at all.

True. Few people have suggested otherwise.

4. I assume that one reason that there has not been an effort to start building an asteroid belt manufacturing capacity (for use later) is that it is not clear what the OBS or the monster under the bed (who wakes up in 20 years) will do.

Another reason might be that OWL and Merlin do not have the resources to construct anything like that.

5. I would hope that the mining tailings are being used to stock up on difficult to obtain materials, but it is not clear that this is the case. (Of course, certain materials may not be present in the coal, iron, and the like tailings.)

What mining tailings? You mean the Charis mines? I'm not sure what use you think those tailings would be. Exactly what "difficult to obtain materials" do you think need to be saved up? And how would Charis get them?

The vagueness of what happens when the Wyllsynn key is used suggests it activates something that takes charge and is expected to be able to help the church out of her desperate trouble, not that it allows the Wyllsynns to do so themselves. Occam's razor tends to suggest some connection with the OBS and the 1000 year return, but it is only a suggestion. Eg a VR copy of Sheuler which is going to be woken up at year 1000 but can be called earlier, which would then have control of the OBS would be one thing that might fit the bill. Or maybe it is different and the key wakes a military type 1 AI which has orders to sort things out with extreme prejudice. Again the OBS is the only thing vwe already know of that would allow it to deep six enemies of the church so Occam's razor suggests that is what it would use. Of course it may well have other stuff we don't know about - death rays in all the Vicar's quarters for example.

Randomiser wrote:The vagueness of what happens when the Wyllsynn key is used suggests it activates something that takes charge and is expected to be able to help the church out of her desperate trouble, not that it allows the Wyllsynns to do so themselves. Occam's razor tends to suggest some connection with the OBS and the 1000 year return, but it is only a suggestion. Eg a VR copy of Sheuler which is going to be woken up at year 1000 but can be called earlier, which would then have control of the OBS would be one thing that might fit the bill. Or maybe it is different and the key wakes a military type 1 AI which has orders to sort things out with extreme prejudice. Again the OBS is the only thing vwe already know of that would allow it to deep six enemies of the church so Occam's razor suggests that is what it would use. Of course it may well have other stuff we don't know about - death rays in all the Vicar's quarters for example.

If you are going to have a VR wake up in 1000 years, why not have it wake up every 100 or 200 years to try and keep things on track? Also given that the Wylsyn key can only be used once, how does that relate to a VR being awakened.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

Randomiser wrote:The vagueness of what happens when the Wyllsynn key is used suggests it activates something that takes charge and is expected to be able to help the church out of her desperate trouble, not that it allows the Wyllsynns to do so themselves. Occam's razor tends to suggest some connection with the OBS and the 1000 year return, but it is only a suggestion. Eg a VR copy of Sheuler which is going to be woken up at year 1000 but can be called earlier, which would then have control of the OBS would be one thing that might fit the bill. Or maybe it is different and the key wakes a military type 1 AI which has orders to sort things out with extreme prejudice. Again the OBS is the only thing vwe already know of that would allow it to deep six enemies of the church so Occam's razor suggests that is what it would use. Of course it may well have other stuff we don't know about - death rays in all the Vicar's quarters for example.

If you are going to have a VR wake up in 1000 years, why not have it wake up every 100 or 200 years to try and keep things on track? Also given that the Wylsyn key can only be used once, how does that relate to a VR being awakened.

Well, I don't know. Why are the archangels only returning after 1000 years and not every 100 or 200? Maybe the VR, for some reason, is incomplete like Nahrman but more so and will only be able to maintain personality integration for one more short burst so it's really got to count? Imagine Scheuler wounded and dying so they could only get a partial recording of him even with a NEAT and as a VR making up the key and having someone deliver it and the verifier to an early Wylsynn before establishing the contact station in the Temple and shutting himself down to storage. But that's probably totally wrong and RFC will have thought of something much more plausible and ingenious - which is why he writes books and I don't!

I have to say, I hope that when the thing under the temple wakes up, it seals Clyntahn in his chambers and gasses him, or just lets him asphyxiate.

Remember, Clyntahn never leaves the temple, and the temple is very tightly sealed and climate controlled, with "magic" doors.

My take is that Langhorn and the rest weren't evil, they were scared. Horribly scared. Scared to the point of insanity, and unwilling to compromise. That does not mean that they would appreciate what Clyntahn is doing.

If a Langhorn AI wakes up, sees what's been happening, and reviews the last 1000 years of data in accelerated time, I expect Clyntahn to die horribly, and then Langhorne will start to take a close look at the take from orbital sensors...

I know this has been discussed previously ad nauseum.
If the 'sleeper' under the Temple is a PICA, they had a 3 day timer before they went dormant. If it is a PICA it has a limited time to act. There was only one master cybercist and he supported Shan-Wei. I would doubt that it was Langhorne or the PICA would have to have been placed prior to the retaliation with the pocket nuke. This is more evident if the Temple in Zion was placed where the prior headquarters was, to show the power of God. Scheuler was still alive when he made his hologram for the "Key" and set his back up plan in motion. MWW has as many layers as he needs to move his storyline along the way he wants. Seijin Koty is just another example of this. May our favorite author continue to write for years so we can enjoy his imagination.

schoeffelk wrote:I know this has been discussed previously ad nauseum.
If the 'sleeper' under the Temple is a PICA, they had a 3 day timer before they went dormant. If it is a PICA it has a limited time to act. There was only one master cybercist and he supported Shan-Wei. I would doubt that it was Langhorne or the PICA would have to have been placed prior to the retaliation with the pocket nuke. This is more evident if the Temple in Zion was placed where the prior headquarters was, to show the power of God. Scheuler was still alive when he made his hologram for the "Key" and set his back up plan in motion. MWW has as many layers as he needs to move his storyline along the way he wants. Seijin Koty is just another example of this. May our favorite author continue to write for years so we can enjoy his imagination.

The sleeper is a PICA is one idea that comes up regularly. RFC has ruled out the notion of one coming from Terra. If one had come from earth, that is where the 10 day limit might apply. However, had the archangels wanted to build a PICA once they arrived on Safehold, they could have done that without a 10 day limit just as Owl did when Nimue #2 was built.

Given the antitech bias of Langhorne and his faction of the original crew, it is doubtful that such a PICA was built.

Don