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New ships designs

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New ships designs
Post by Draken   » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:39 am

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Caparelli said that Medusa-B is incoming. What we know so far about that ship? Also if Agamemnon is a small class, they should start thinking about new class, shouldn't they?
Also Roland destroyers aren't good so they should create bigger class which should be greater. I'm thinking about circa 250-300k ton ship as a destroyer and heavy cruiser similar to Saganami-C, which should have mass of around 800-1000k, and heavy missiles armament and lighter graser armament. Also a lot of PD and CM because Sollies will try to saturate missile defence. Destroyer should have armament similar to Saganami-B. Manticore also should try to create faster version of Nike as a system raiding force and bigger Agamemnon won't be a bad idea they quite good but to small for long independent operation or as a system raiding forces. Why they won't create bigger CLAC? Havenites one show that they don't have problems with speed and acceleration and they will be better to be used with battle squadrons and even as separate squadrons to raid systems with big but light pickets. Few cruisers or battle cruisers squadrons and few destroyer flotillas. Battle squadron will be a big overkill and a battle cruisers won't be good enough and it's possible to give them decent offensive armament with bigger carrying capacity.
Graysons Convincton in my opinion are very good pattern of carriers which would only needs few upgrades and maybe a little bigger hull so it will have more LACs.
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Re: New ships designs
Post by Duckk   » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:45 am

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Caparelli said that Medusa-B is incoming. What we know so far about that ship?


http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... ngton/81/1

Word from David is that the Medusa-Bs were caught in Oyster Bay. BuShips is now thinking of fourth generation podlayers.

Also if Agamemnon is a small class, they should start thinking about new class, shouldn't they?


That's the Nikes. Their introduction in AAC references how BuShips wasn't entirely pleased with the BC(P) concept, so they developed the Nike class BC(L)s.

Also Roland destroyers aren't good so they should create bigger class which should be greater.

*snip for brevity*


David has already indicated ship design directions.

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/286/1
http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/285/1
http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/307/1
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1706&p=33856
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Re: New ships designs
Post by SWM   » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:58 am

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You should probably read up on what David has already said about future Manticoran ship development. Here are a few infodumps that I was able to quickly find:

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/289/1
http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/286/1
http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/242/1
http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/285/1
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4892&p=121140&hilit=notional#p121140

[edit]eh, partially ninja'd. :)[/edit]
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Re: New ships designs
Post by MAD-4A   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:48 am

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Draken wrote:...Why they won't create bigger CLAC? ...even as separate squadrons to raid systems with big but light pickets...Graysons Convincton in my opinion are very good pattern of carriers which would only needs few upgrades and maybe a little bigger hull so it will have more LACs.
If they go for big CLACs then they should go all the way, 8-10Mt. used for system attacks/raids they should be stripped. no mounts what so ever except PD mounts & CMs all offensive weapons deleted. stuff as many LACs as possible onboard. escort with a BC(L) squadron. when the TG enters a system, they avoid the hyper limit. launch a mass of (all their) LACs in system to attack while the squadron circles round (or even makes a micro hop around) then picks up the surviving LACs on the other side. this would have the advantage of very high accel for the raiding force inside the hyper limit and no risk to big expensive units (they get in trouble and poof over the wall) still would recommend at-least BC(L) though you can never tell if some patrol or transfer ship may get lucky and be there just as you exit hyper. may be hard on LAC crews though.
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Re: New ships designs
Post by Draken   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:27 pm

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Is it possible to build ships heavier than 9 millions?
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Re: New ships designs
Post by Theemile   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:49 pm

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Draken wrote:Is it possible to build ships heavier than 9 millions?


Yes - there are 3 ways
1) wedge and compensator. The way most ships move in the Honorverse.Unfortuanetly we do not have all the numbers from the newest compensator, but you should be able to build ships up to ~12 Mtons - they just won't move fast - a 9 Mton ship is probably limited to ~580-590 Gs of accel with the newest compensator. After a certain point on the original curve (it was ~8.5 Mtons)you had a steep fall offthat made ships larger than that impractical.

2) Wedge and Grav plates.
This is how most forts are built - The Grav plates usually work up to 150s Gs. Modern Manty Grav plates will absord 100% of accel through 100 Gs, then pass along 1 G or so for every 10 additional Gs - hence Honor's use of the Grav plates at Cerberus. There is no upper Mass limit for movement.

3) Spider drive and Grav Plates
This is how spiders work - they cannot connect to compensators so they have to have gravplates to protect their crews. Mesa has developed an advanced grav plate - IIRC they can move at 200-250 Gs while only passing 5 Gs to the crew. There is no upper mass limit for movement.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: New ships designs
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:07 pm

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Duckk wrote:That's the Nikes. Their introduction in AAC references how BuShips wasn't entirely pleased with the BC(P) concept, so they developed the Nike class BC(L)s.

Okay, I've looked through AAC and HoS. What does BC(L) stand for - I understand the battlecruiser, and I understand the BC(P) is a pod laying battle cruiser - I haven't been able to find out what the L stands for.
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Re: New ships designs
Post by Theemile   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:17 pm

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fallsfromtrees wrote:
Duckk wrote:That's the Nikes. Their introduction in AAC references how BuShips wasn't entirely pleased with the BC(P) concept, so they developed the Nike class BC(L)s.

Okay, I've looked through AAC and HoS. What does BC(L) stand for - I understand the battlecruiser, and I understand the BC(P) is a pod laying battle cruiser - I haven't been able to find out what the L stands for.


Large - it's a forumn reference, not a storyline reference.

It is used to designate a ship design which lies far outside the normal mass (and capability) ratings for it's class. So a Saganami C is a CA(L), as is a Havenite Mars class. A Roland is a DD(L).
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: New ships designs
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:35 pm

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Theemile wrote:Large - it's a forumn reference, not a storyline reference.

It is used to designate a ship design which lies far outside the normal mass (and capability) ratings for it's class. So a Saganami C is a CA(L), as is a Havenite Mars class. A Roland is a DD(L).

Thank you.
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Re: New ships designs
Post by Draken   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:15 pm

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Is there any equation which we could use to calculate, how fast amount of acceleration would fall down, after 9 millions?
CLAC mustn't be fast so if it would weight around 11 millions and has something like 250-350 LACs and decent point defence, 300-350 G would be acceptable. Of course faster carriers also should be build, something like current Havenite or Grayson carriers. They must be faster because they will be travelling with SD(P) and BC(P) and they must be fast enough not to fall out of line in battles. Heavier carrier mustn't be that fast but 400 G would be nice, his job would be jump in, lauch LACs and jump out, after job is done jump in, take them and go to the major base for new orders. Bigger CLACs are similar for me to Essex CV and lighter similar to CVE, which were mainly protecting heavier ships in battles. About pod designs nice idea, would be ship which mass is around 4-4,5 millions, it couldn't carry as much pods as Invictus or Medusa, it should be much faster, if we would think about Invictus as Yamato class, than my new design should similar to Iowa class. Much faster but lighter armament and less protection, but if we place enough point defence and SD grade sidewalls it will be very hard to destroy. Also it could carry less grasers, but much more missiles similar to Harrington. Sollies fleet is powerful in short range fight, especially using energy weapon so putting those on our ships won't be a great idea, much better one would be to put much more rockets.
Because we will be using a lot of Marines Manticore should create dedicated transport/support ship.
I'm thinking about something like that:
Achilles-class assault carrier
Mass: 6-7 millions
Acceleration: 450-550 gees
Carrying capacity: battalion or brigade with all equipment to land them in one flight
Armament: 15 SD grade grasers, 30 missiles, 50 PD and 50 CM per broadside
Light crafts: enough shuttles to land battalion in one flight and some stingships, weather and navigation satellites to support group warfare.
Other things: spacious command deck, a lot of telemetry links, sophisticated sensors and protection similar to Nike and if possible better.
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