HFQ Official Snippet #11

alj_sf wrote:

Randomiser wrote:Jeff and Joat you misunderstand me; the unacceptable security risk is not that the airbuses might get spotted, it is revealing the existence of the airbuses to all the people you are transporting. Given the suffering they have allowed in the past to maintain that security it is much more likely that you have just guessed wrong than that there is some mysterious, unguessable reason it's worth while throwing all that security away.

I think it reads much more like ETathome suggests, Merlin has spotted a hole in his transport capabilities and might as well get it sorted just in case he needs to transport multiple members of the inner circle sometime in the future. It's an afterthought. At least that's how I see it.

Hmm. The existence of air transports is known even if it was restricted to Archangels. But, if the persons to transport are SSK members with knowledge of Khody journal, those persons knows that a Seijin should be able too. There is not much risk here to cause an heresy or demon accusation. Concerning security, SSK record seems to be perfect, as the Inquisition is not even aware of its existence.

Revealing the Brethen, Merlin real role and goals, or Nimue Cave is a totally different problem

Thanks for a really nice snippet RFC, hope your trip back had no complications.

Regarding the conversion of air lorries to buses, I couldn't help thinking that they have just found a new core of people that are fighting the Church and know some version of the truth, and are obviously far behind enemy lines where they are vulnerable to the Inquisition. And then there is this giant cavern in the mountains of light....

Could they be looking as setting up a community in Nimues cave? Move at risk people there, create a war-room and intelligence analysis center, train some of them in using high tech gear, get them ready for whatever might come later - and have a bunch of people completely safe and ready to restart the war effort later if the Rakurai is accidentally triggered.

fallsfromtrees wrote:Possible, but too similar to what RFC did with the reformists in Zion, so I don't think that he is going to repeat himself - but of course he might since we don't expect it. We can go around this circle a couple of times, he won't repeat himself, because he doesn't, he will repeat himself because we don't expect it ... Isn't double think wonderful?

I think everyone is concentrating on Aivah and ignoring Sandaria. I think she may be a real threat. While I doubt she is an agent of the Inquisition, here are a few (yes, I am paranoid, but they are out to get us) possibilities:

- The Temple-supporting Archangels learned that Shan Wei's people had something left in reserve, and so left their one PICA to monitor Seijin Kody's group, in the assumption that eventually they would be contacted.

- Similar to above, but instead the AI in the Temple implanted Sandaria (as a few in each generation) at birth with the net to use NEATs, then effectively implanted her with programming to let the Temple know if she was contacted by groups from Shan-Wei's people. She would have implants with some form of stealth communications. Note that she would be working for the Temple's AI, not the CoGA.

-- Bob G

BobG wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:Possible, but too similar to what RFC did with the reformists in Zion, so I don't think that he is going to repeat himself - but of course he might since we don't expect it. We can go around this circle a couple of times, he won't repeat himself, because he doesn't, he will repeat himself because we don't expect it ... Isn't double think wonderful?

I think everyone is concentrating on Aivah and ignoring Sandaria. I think she may be a real threat. While I doubt she is an agent of the Inquisition, here are a few (yes, I am paranoid, but they are out to get us) possibilities:

- The Temple-supporting Archangels learned that Shan Wei's people had something left in reserve, and so left their one PICA to monitor Seijin Kody's group, in the assumption that eventually they would be contacted.

- Similar to above, but instead the AI in the Temple implanted Sandaria (as a few in each generation) at birth with the net to use NEATs, then effectively implanted her with programming to let the Temple know if she was contacted by groups from Shan-Wei's people. She would have implants with some form of stealth communications. Note that she would be working for the Temple's AI, not the CoGA.

-- Bob G

Then there is the simplest and most direct rationale. Sandariah won't be persuaded Merlin is right when he discloses the Truth. She might well believe that Merlin is Shan-wei's tool. This is true after all. If Sandariah isn't convinced that is truly Shan-wei as she is described by Merlin, then she would work against the good guys without being planted by the Inquisition.

We might discover Sandariah's inability to believe the Truth shortly in Nimue's Cave or later when her betrayal is revealed at some climatic moment. Only time will tell.

BobG wrote:I think everyone is concentrating on Aivah and ignoring Sandaria. I think she may be a real threat.

She might well be but I think she's on the same line as Aivah whatever happens. Otherwise, she'd have appeared earlier and wouldn't have been introduced so casually.

Moreover, I'm convinced that the trip to the cave was preceeded by a discussion of the truth between Aivah and Merlin. We'll get that in a flashback, probably in the next snippet. And since a lot of people are travelling to that cave suddenly, Aivah and the SSK seem be to on Shanwei's side - at least she's saying so.
And if Aivah and the SSK are suddenly on Shanwei's side, there's a more than fair chance that she was on that side before Merlin revealed his allegiance...

BobG wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:Possible, but too similar to what RFC did with the reformists in Zion, so I don't think that he is going to repeat himself - but of course he might since we don't expect it. We can go around this circle a couple of times, he won't repeat himself, because he doesn't, he will repeat himself because we don't expect it ... Isn't double think wonderful?

I think everyone is concentrating on Aivah and ignoring Sandaria. I think she may be a real threat. While I doubt she is an agent of the Inquisition, here are a few (yes, I am paranoid, but they are out to get us) possibilities:

- The Temple-supporting Archangels learned that Shan Wei's people had something left in reserve, and so left their one PICA to monitor Seijin Kody's group, in the assumption that eventually they would be contacted.

I rate the chances of this to be zero if not sightly less. If the TSA (Temple supporting Archangels) had access to a PICA that could operate in autonomous mode for more than 10 days, they would not waste it on monitoring a small group of possible dissidents. It would have been used to monitor the Temple and correct the corruption that has crept in. In particular, I would think that the approval of gunpowder a century earlier would have been reversed, as that was virtually guaranteed to create the sort of arms race that will lead to technical innovation.

BobG wrote:- Similar to above, but instead the AI in the Temple implanted Sandaria (as a few in each generation) at birth with the net to use NEATs, then effectively implanted her with programming to let the Temple know if she was contacted by groups from Shan-Wei's people. She would have implants with some form of stealth communications. Note that she would be working for the Temple's AI, not the CoGA.

-- Bob G

Again, if the AI had this capability, it would have been working to put Langhorne's plan back on track - not allow the corruption to go on so long, as that is the way that will eventually cause the rejection of the church due to its abuses.

I agree with you that RFC is engaged in a little sleight of hand here, keeping the audience's eyes on the right hand of Nynian, while the left hand of Sandaria is doing something off stage, to be revealed in a great puff of smoke. At this stage I'm not sure what that puff of smoke is going to be.

IIRC, RFC has already made the point that the only PICA on Safehold is Nimue's at least until Owl manufactured the second. The reasons for that had to do with Langhorne's anti-tech bias which would have made the manufacture of one after arrival unlikely.

Won't you guys be surprised when Sandaria turns out to be exactly as presented --Nynian's loyal companion, assistant and body servant? She'undoubtedly a very capable lasy in her own right, but there is no sustantative reason at all to see anything sinister here.

Don

n7axw wrote:IIRC, RFC has already made the point that the only PICA on Safehold is Nimue's at least until Owl manufactured the second. The reasons for that had to do with Langhorne's anti-tech bias which would have made the manufacture of one after arrival unlikely.

Won't you guys be surprised when Sandaria turns out to be exactly as presented --Nynian's loyal companion, assistant and body servant? She'undoubtedly a very capable lasy in her own right, but there is no sustantative reason at all to see anything sinister here.

Don

Other than RFC's penchant for neat plot twists.
A vivid imagination isn't required to be paranoid, but it helps

I think it reads much more like ETathome suggests, Merlin has spotted a hole in his transport capabilities and might as well get it sorted just in case he needs to transport multiple members of the inner circle sometime in the future. It's an afterthought. At least that's how I see it.[/quote]

Hmm. The existence of air transports is known even if it was restricted to Archangels. But, if the persons to transport are SSK members with knowledge of Khody journal, those persons knows that a Seijin should be able too. There is not much risk here to cause an heresy or demon accusation. Concerning security, SSK record seems to be perfect, as the Inquisition is not even aware of its existence.

I like the idea of using the cave as a command center, but remember that "humint" must, by definition, be gathered in person. Just don't tell the riskiest the whole story. They should be used to that already.

Revealing the Brethen, Merlin real role and goals, or Nimue Cave is a totally different problem[/quote]

Thanks for a really nice snippet RFC, hope your trip back had no complications.

Regarding the conversion of air lorries to buses, I couldn't help thinking that they have just found a new core of people that are fighting the Church and know some version of the truth, and are obviously far behind enemy lines where they are vulnerable to the Inquisition. And then there is this giant cavern in the mountains of light....

Could they be looking as setting up a community in Nimues cave? Move at risk people there, create a war-room and intelligence analysis center, train some of them in using high tech gear, get them ready for whatever might come later - and have a bunch of people completely safe and ready to restart the war effort later if the Rakurai is accidentally triggered.[/quote]

I think everyone is concentrating on Aivah and ignoring Sandaria. I think she may be a real threat. While I doubt she is an agent of the Inquisition, here are a few (yes, I am paranoid, but they are out to get us) possibilities:

- The Temple-supporting Archangels learned that Shan Wei's people had something left in reserve, and so left their one PICA to monitor Seijin Kody's group, in the assumption that eventually they would be contacted.

- Similar to above, but instead the AI in the Temple implanted Sandaria (as a few in each generation) at birth with the net to use NEATs, then effectively implanted her with programming to let the Temple know if she was contacted by groups from Shan-Wei's people. She would have implants with some form of stealth communications. Note that she would be working for the Temple's AI, not the CoGA.

-- Bob G[/quote]

I think that Sandria has been vetted many years ago. Aviah would be dead meat if she was not trustworthy.

Regarding the conversion of air lorries to buses, I couldn't help thinking that they have just found a new core of people that are fighting the Church and know some version of the truth, and are obviously far behind enemy lines where they are vulnerable to the Inquisition. And then there is this giant cavern in the mountains of light....

Could they be looking as setting up a community in Nimues cave? Move at risk people there, create a war-room and intelligence analysis center, train some of them in using high tech gear, get them ready for whatever might come later - and have a bunch of people completely safe and ready to restart the war effort later if the Rakurai is accidentally triggered.

It may be convenient to have a group of people who can work with Owl and Nahrmahn in full privacy and security. Furthermore, a fast response force - down the road some - in the Temple Lands could make for some fast miracles near Zion if need be.

Sandaria's the second officer of one of Safehold's three long-running clandestine anti-Langhorne organizations. (Nimue, her PICA, the Peis et al are one; St. Zherneau's brethren the other.) She's been very low-profile, but that's been a matter of design within the SSK and plausibly a matter of narrative in the books. If she were a security issue, she'd have long since run to report.

But she may well be a likely candidate for running a hidden operation out of the Cave - like those truly private analysts, a training compound, or a place to stash people who cannot handle the truth but the conspirators would rather not kill to silence. (Cold-blooded pragmatism may demand that, but if there is any practical, secure alternative, these people will lunge for it.)

She may also be well qualified to manage SNARC-based pickups of intel packets from near Zion and orders back to SSK agents. Operating out of the Cave, with perhaps the second recon skimmer or one of the next stealthiest vehicles, may allow her, or follow-on staff under her, to make personal appearances near Zion at short notice. That would account for the interest in air lorry refurbishing as more than total afterthought, and for a trip to the Cave with her at all. Including Aivah in that case becomes a little trickier to explain, but politically and personally, I'm sure the two of them are likely to feel far, far more at ease about this whole visit to the Archangel's playhouse with one another for company to experience it, and that level of sharing should help cement the SSK conspirators to the EoC ones.

This kind of program may represent doing Aivah's original request for fast trips in and out of Zion one better - preparing to do something like that, as circumstances require, more often and as needed. If Sandaria can serve as her deputy for any of those trips, this would put her closer and allow her to do them while Aivah is still in sight in public. Aivah's visible; Sandaria fades into the background. This'd take advantage of that.