Hot Air Balloons for Artillery spotting

packhunter wrote:I've just recently reread the entire serries. Including the appendixes.

No where is it specifically mentioned that flight is proscribed. I believe this is intentional on RFC's part as he likely hasn't made up his mind yet on the subject.

I could have sworn that there was a scene about a chinese hot air lantren in the first couple of books. Which is what initiated the reread. Turns out that was not the case and may instead have been from the 163x Ring of Fire serries.

I still realy really really want airships to be a big part of Safehold. Its actually one of those technologies thats increadibly underutilized in our own time, but could have amazing potential in Safehold. I have vissions of tripple hulled behomths carrying passangers and cargo all over. While at the front reconacence zeplins buzz far and wide over the church lines, and Strategic bomber Dirgables raid Church supply depots and transportation hubs constantly.

Charis has the Navy, Chisholm the Army, Corrisande could easily become the primary mover and shaker with regards to the Airforce.

Looking at LAMA and several maps in the series, I would see a development of a separate Imperial Coast Guard. Consisting of mobile, speedy, light-sail craft (maybe outrigers or catamarans); coastal watch-towers; pony express (messenger service); and floating recon platforms. These can all be done by women. But the male chauvinism of the Empire's combined society, as well as the mindset of some nobility has to be swayed. I am still agog that some societies can accept a queen and still treat women second and third class. (P.S. Heterosexual Male Posting Here.)

While the idea of the balloon/air travel appeals to me as well, I can think of a couple of reasons RFC would not introduce it (at least on Charis' side).

1) As has already been mentioned, the gunpowder is too weak. So it will be some time before there is a need for a spotter to see in that distance.

2) The leaders/inner circle all have access to the information from the SNARCS. This creates a blind spot because they are often putting scouts out there just to explain how they knew something, not because they needed the information provided. These are the same people that are subtly guiding the development in Charis.

3) The tech development is proceeding almost too quickly. Consider that the use of a signal rocket was recognized (after a moment of shock). Turning it into a weapon because you saw a balloon (or kite) is not too far a stretch.

I do agree about the cultural aspects, though. During WWII, women had to take factory jobs because so many men were off to war. It did a lot for social empowerment at the time. Are we going to see something similar because of the same reasons?

packhunter wrote:I've just recently reread the entire serries. Including the appendixes.

No where is it specifically mentioned that flight is proscribed. I believe this is intentional on RFC's part as he likely hasn't made up his mind yet on the subject.

I could have sworn that there was a scene about a chinese hot air lantren in the first couple of books. Which is what initiated the reread. Turns out that was not the case and may instead have been from the 163x Ring of Fire serries.

I still realy really really want airships to be a big part of Safehold. Its actually one of those technologies thats increadibly underutilized in our own time, but could have amazing potential in Safehold. I have vissions of tripple hulled behomths carrying passangers and cargo all over. While at the front reconacence zeplins buzz far and wide over the church lines, and Strategic bomber Dirgables raid Church supply depots and transportation hubs constantly.

Charis has the Navy, Chisholm the Army, Corrisande could easily become the primary mover and shaker with regards to the Airforce.

No. flying is not proscribed that we know of. But it could be that some of the tech that would make your idea practical might be. I would wonder how you would go about propelling a dirigible from place to place in a controlled manner, for example. Maybe there is an answer to that, maybe not.

Don

n7axw wrote:

packhunter wrote:I've just recently reread the entire serries. Including the appendixes.

No where is it specifically mentioned that flight is proscribed. I believe this is intentional on RFC's part as he likely hasn't made up his mind yet on the subject.

I could have sworn that there was a scene about a chinese hot air lantren in the first couple of books. Which is what initiated the reread. Turns out that was not the case and may instead have been from the 163x Ring of Fire serries.

I still realy really really want airships to be a big part of Safehold. Its actually one of those technologies thats increadibly underutilized in our own time, but could have amazing potential in Safehold. I have vissions of tripple hulled behomths carrying passangers and cargo all over. While at the front reconacence zeplins buzz far and wide over the church lines, and Strategic bomber Dirgables raid Church supply depots and transportation hubs constantly.

Charis has the Navy, Chisholm the Army, Corrisande could easily become the primary mover and shaker with regards to the Airforce.

No. flying is not proscribed that we know of. But it could be that some of the tech that would make your idea practical might be. I would wonder how you would go about propelling a dirigible from place to place in a controlled manner, for example. Maybe there is an answer to that, maybe not.

Don

Steam engine driven propellers?

Twin lifting hulls with the steam engine in between driving a counter rotating pair of propellers (simply to reduce the torque loads).

Use a rigid, Zeppelin type of internal structure. Or even semi rigid to save weight.

Steel thistle silk, coated with a suitable agent, could make very effective cells, not to mention the outer skin of the lifting hulls themselves.

Hydraulics for the control surfaces, piezo internal communications(sound powered phones)if needed.

Depending on how the research works out, use an oil feed for the boilers, instead of all that coal.

Just a thought....

The biggest problems with Airships are how they handle bad weather and high winds.

I can see the use of Balloons for Artillery spotting and possibly for ship spotting but I'm not sure that Airships are worth the problems caused by weather & high winds.

Oh, Airships can be cool so I understand the "rule of cool" reason for them.

Caliban wrote:Twin lifting hulls with the steam engine in between driving a counter rotating pair of propellers (simply to reduce the torque loads).

Use a rigid, Zeppelin type of internal structure. Or even semi rigid to save weight.

Steel thistle silk, coated with a suitable agent, could make very effective cells, not to mention the outer skin of the lifting hulls themselves.

Hydraulics for the control surfaces, piezo internal communications(sound powered phones)if needed.

Depending on how the research works out, use an oil feed for the boilers, instead of all that coal.

Just a thought....

Caliban wrote:Twin lifting hulls with the steam engine in between driving a counter rotating pair of propellers (simply to reduce the torque loads).

Use a rigid, Zeppelin type of internal structure. Or even semi rigid to save weight.

Steel thistle silk, coated with a suitable agent, could make very effective cells, not to mention the outer skin of the lifting hulls themselves.

Hydraulics for the control surfaces, piezo internal communications(sound powered phones)if needed.

Depending on how the research works out, use an oil feed for the boilers, instead of all that coal.

Just a thought....

Using oil rather than coal might make the idea practical. I wonder if instead of an engine, you coul force the steam out through a tube using a windmill style wheel to drive the propeller. Might be lighter and simpler.

Don

n7axw wrote:snip

Using oil rather than coal might make the idea practical. I wonder if instead of an engine, you coul force the steam out through a tube using a windmill style wheel to drive the propeller. Might be lighter and simpler.

Don

Sounds like a steam driven turbine to me. Actually, I always thought that that was one of the arguments for allowing steam under the proscriptions - steam is just water in a different form and water is allowed, it is just converted and making a wind, which is also allowed. How can that possibly be a violation of the proscriptions?

Oil burning steam engines! the proppelor side of things is esy given rotary fans and now propelar drim steam ships.

Our world once made a steam engine powered fixed wing air plane. Which would be way harder to do than an airship/Dirgable/Zeplin. Hydrogen isn't that hard to make, there are multiple different ways. Helium may even be possible. At worst hot air can be used, that just means shorter operating distance.

n7axw wrote:

packhunter wrote:I still realy really really want airships to be a big part of Safehold.

No. flying is not proscribed that we know of. But it could be that some of the tech that would make your idea practical might be. I would wonder how you would go about propelling a dirigible from place to place in a controlled manner, for example. Maybe there is an answer to that, maybe not.

Don

Don: I was going to suggest; we mount three air intake tubes in front (and sides for course correction by gated valves) of the gondola to feed the bottom of an air saddle that envelopes a furnace.
The air, thus being heated, is channeled from the top of the heat envelope either to the balloon for lift or tubed to the rear for propulsion (both intake and output). Anyone who's ever operated a Franklin Wood Stove can attest to the chimney effect. The problem I see with using the steam engine is the combined weights of the engine, the water needed for steam, and its fuel supply. My airjet design needs to be tested and I doubt it's practical for long distances. Maybe we can transport in ships and sleds; inflate and travel behind enemy lines with paratroopers? Or just descend and let the troops repel down ropes? Spotting balloons anchored to ironclads and using a flex tube to capture heat from the ship's engines may be more feasible (in calm weather) for Safehold at the moment.