The punishment of the group of four

pokermind wrote:There are hints that the group of four is unraveling and we may soon lose some of them, it is even possible that some may be forced to flee and seek asylum.

Poker

I presume at some monastery deep in the heart of Harchong??? Maybe ole Clyntahn can finish out his days milking goats and making bad cheese...

Don

n7axw wrote:

pokermind wrote:There are hints that the group of four is unraveling and we may soon lose some of them, it is even possible that some may be forced to flee and seek asylum.

Poker

I presume at some monastery deep in the heart of Harchong??? Maybe ole Clyntahn can finish out his days milking goats and making bad cheese...

Don

Clynthan's mind is inserted into a VR running loop either as Sisyphus pushing his rock or Prometheus having his liver eaten daily.

n7axw wrote:

pokermind wrote:There are hints that the group of four is unraveling and we may soon lose some of them, it is even possible that some may be forced to flee and seek asylum.

Poker

I presume at some monastery deep in the heart of Harchong??? Maybe ole Clyntahn can finish out his days milking goats and making bad cheese...

Don

And having to live solely on what he produces! - He's "enjoyed" one spell in the kitchens already.

pokermind wrote:There are hints that the group of four is unraveling and we may soon lose some of them, it is even possible that some may be forced to flee and seek asylum.

Poker

Flee and seek asylum where?

Yes, the Go4 appears to be unraveling, but I don't expect that this will be like South America at the end of WW2, when some Nazis sought refuge in various countries in South America. We might see Charis take in some of the CoGA's top scientists (as America and the Soviet Union did at the end of WW2), but the top leaders, I suspect, will not be granted asylum.

The more interesting question will be what happens if Duchairn successfully overthrows Clyntahn and assumes control of the CoGA, then sues for peace with the EoC. What happens then? I don't think that scenario will come to pass, but if it does, then what?

The EoC cannot be true to its stated intent and character if it horribly tortures and cruelly kills the leaders of the Go4. It can, however, publicly execute them, probably by hanging or beheading, and if any members of the Go4 are captured, with the possible exception of Duchairn, I hope that is what happens to them. I'm hoping even more, though, that Clyntahn gets taken down in a spectacular assassination by Nynian, with an assist from Merlin.

Ideally you want Clyntahn publicly executed by religious authorities after a fair and public trial, but maybe not just yet - he's such an asset for the EoC

RHWoodman wrote:

I'm hoping even more, though, that Clyntahn gets taken down in a spectacular assassination by Nynian,

What--and deny Adorai Dynnys and Irys Daykyn their vengeance?

~Tonto

Tonto Silerheels wrote:RHWoodman wrote:

I'm hoping even more, though, that Clyntahn gets taken down in a spectacular assassination by Nynian,

What--and deny Adorai Dynnys and Irys Daykyn their vengeance?

~Tonto

By this point so many people will have equal claim to want Clyntahn's head that Adorai Dynnys and Irys Daykyn don;t have anymore valid claim than anyone else.

On the fates of the Go4 I think there are some obvious results and some ambiguity. Clytahn clearly has to go – permanently. Whether by hanging, firing squad, or assassination, he’s gone.

Magwair may end up being eliminated by Clytahn as taking the blame for military disasters, but he seems fairly competent at his job and is following orders (not that that’s an excuse). If Clytahn doesn’t have him executed, or he dies somehow in fighting, I’d see him imprisoned for life.

Trynair is also in danger of being scapegoated by Clytahn. If not that, that either also prison for life or suicide.

Duchairn is the most complex one. I have a hard time seeing how Clyntahn kills Duchairn – given all that’s gone before with Weber setting him up to get more religion and plot something – as indicated in previous books. To kill him off now would make one wonder why he was such a main character all this time. Looking at it from a practical point of view, “someone” has got to take over running the church after Clytahn’s gone. Even after the church is defeated militarily, there will be hundreds of millions of believers all over the planet. They are not going to suddenly be told the truth about Safehold – or convert suddenly to the Church of Charis. It will take time, which Merlin (in his two guises) has. Time to push the church into reform and avoid the worst of shocks in learning the truth. Having Duchairn running the church, and being told the truth by Merlin, would seem to be the best strategy. Assuming Duchairn’s reformation is genuine, then working to reform the church would be both a measure of redemption and punishment at the same time.

It will also be important to reform the other mainland states gradually enough to avoid something like a slave/masters war in Harchong. Merlin has stated a couple of times that could be nastier than anything else – with perhaps hundreds of millions of dead in the fighting. A reforming church, backed by Charis and the Church of Charis might be the best way to ease these other states into more humane and technologically advanced systems.

As for suggestions for official gruesome deaths for all the gang of four, forget it. There’s no way Maikel Staynair, Paitr Wylsynn, Sharleyan, or Calyb would agree to such official executions – at least as the characters have been written. Even Clyntahn gets off with rope, ax, firing squad, or assassination.

Asylum of one member of the GO4 from the others, as the excrement meets the rotary airfoil, my guess is the treasurer after an unsuccessful attempt at the head Schulerite.

Poker

RHWoodman wrote:

pokermind wrote:There are hints that the group of four is unraveling and we may soon lose some of them, it is even possible that some may be forced to flee and seek asylum.

Poker

Flee and seek asylum where?

Yes, the Go4 appears to be unraveling, but I don't expect that this will be like South America at the end of WW2, when some Nazis sought refuge in various countries in South America. We might see Charis take in some of the CoGA's top scientists (as America and the Soviet Union did at the end of WW2), but the top leaders, I suspect, will not be granted asylum.

The more interesting question will be what happens if Duchairn successfully overthrows Clyntahn and assumes control of the CoGA, then sues for peace with the EoC. What happens then? I don't think that scenario will come to pass, but if it does, then what?

The EoC cannot be true to its stated intent and character if it horribly tortures and cruelly kills the leaders of the Go4. It can, however, publicly execute them, probably by hanging or beheading, and if any members of the Go4 are captured, with the possible exception of Duchairn, I hope that is what happens to them. I'm hoping even more, though, that Clyntahn gets taken down in a spectacular assassination by Nynian, with an assist from Merlin.

Not sure about Adorai, but if I were Hektor, I would move Heaven and Earth er ....Safehold to prevent Irys from exercising vengeance. Not saying she doesn't deserve justice only that exercising vengeance would harm Irys deeply. Were I her husband, I would try my best to protect her from that harm.

Zakharra wrote:

Tonto Silerheels wrote:RHWoodman wrote:

I'm hoping even more, though, that Clyntahn gets taken down in a spectacular assassination by Nynian,

What--and deny Adorai Dynnys and Irys Daykyn their vengeance?

~Tonto

By this point so many people will have equal claim to want Clyntahn's head that Adorai Dynnys and Irys Daykyn don;t have anymore valid claim than anyone else.