Beowulf mimicing the idea of Maya

stewart wrote:I thik they would reach out to the Visigoths, but, obviously, they would go with the RF, not Beowulf.

Visigoth MAY sign on "unofficially" or "informally" with Beowulf depending on the risk assessment of the RF as a means of getting intel.
I think that will effectively last until Bark Chewer's Bane and the other Beowulf-assigned 'cats casually encounter and assess the Visigoth delegation.

-- Stewart[/quote]

If the RF has any brains, and we know they do, they will make sure that none of the members of the delegation know about Visgoth's ties to the MA and RF.

Hi Don,

The idea of Beowulf joining the SEM or even the old SKM has been discussed on many threads here and at the bar over many years.

When RFC has brought to consider it, he's generally shot it down on the basis of how diverse the cultures are, Beowulf is almost 2000 years old while Manticore is barely 500, Beowulf has about twice the old SKM's population, for just a few major differences.

So while a military alliance is obviously necessary at the moment, the social and family bonds Beowulf has had with Manticore for almost 350 years are far stronger than any paper treaty, and all either really needs.

L

n7axw wrote:

namelessfly wrote:*quote="n7axw"*I wonder if Beowulf might be a eventual candidate for membership in the SEM.

Don*quote*


To ensure it's security, the SEM should remain galactographically compact so that fleet units stationed in it's various member systems can offer mutual support. However; the most rapid mode of mutual support is via wormhole transits. How many battles have we seen where fleet units make wormhole transits to support another system that is under attack?

For this reason, Beawulf is an absolutely logical choice to be integrated into the SEM.

Your logic here is what led to my question. It does make sense on some levels, especially military. But the difference in cultures might make them more natually friends and allies than sharing the same polity. In a way it may well be like Grayson who has been Manticore's loyal friend but would have no desire to join the SEM.

Don

I'm playing the "other planet" coward role for a minute.

Let's assume that Beowulf is naturally a target for both the Mesan Alignment AND now the Mandarins. The SLN is staffed by cronies and mostly controlled by corrupt OFS officials who have pretty much controlled the universe for a thousand years, and are the only folks with nearby firepower and can slag your cities to scrap with kinetic strikes and call it "rebellion suppression".

So do you a) sign up with most obvious the target of all those folks and hope they win or defend you [they've got their own star system to save, remember?] b) keep your head down and hope that no matter what happens, the thug driven elements of the OFS and Frontier Fleet don't blow your planet to shreds first?

Think "the House of Thomas" in the Meyers system for example. You duck and cover and look for a time when someone else's Navy kicks the OFS, Frontier Fleet, etc. out of the system and gives you a method of keeping your people safe?

So no, I don't think the Mayan model works in a Core World plus nearby systems. It'll only work when the "theoretical thug" (Barregos backed by Rozak) are actually white hats in disquise.

Roguevictory wrote:

stewart wrote:Visigoth MAY sign on "unofficially" or "informally" with Beowulf depending on the risk assessment of the RF as a means of getting intel.
I think that will effectively last until Bark Chewer's Bane and the other Beowulf-assigned 'cats casually encounter and assess the Visigoth delegation.

-- Stewart

If the RF has any brains, and we know they do, they will make sure that none of the members of the delegation know about Visgoth's ties to the MA and RF.

Still, that would set up too much likelihood of 'cats visiting Visigoth and encountering movers and shakers with some MA associations. There's only so much you can do to keep informed figures away from 'cats on diplomats' shoulders. Keeping Visigoth on (plausibly) good but detached terms with Beowulf wouldn't open up more intelligence possibilities for the MA, but it'd minimize 'cat exposure. I'd peg security as more important to them than having that window on Beowulf's plans.

Also, however much Visigoth appears to be a friend and fellow-traveler of Beowulf, being on the far side of a wormhole from Mesa has to leave Beowulf's leadership suspicious of how much Mesa may have penetration of Visigoth's government - if not for influencing policy, at least for gathering information. So the MA would have to view anything Beowulf says as potentially disinformation, and even Visigoth's MA/RF-unaffiliated, naive government officials may assume that, if their minds are twisty enough.

SharkHunter wrote:I'm playing the "other planet" coward role for a minute.

Let's assume that Beowulf is naturally a target for both the Mesan Alignment AND now the Mandarins. The SLN is staffed by cronies and mostly controlled by corrupt OFS officials who have pretty much controlled the universe for a thousand years, and are the only folks with nearby firepower and can slag your cities to scrap with kinetic strikes and call it "rebellion suppression".

So do you a) sign up with most obvious the target of all those folks and hope they win or defend you [they've got their own star system to save, remember?] b) keep your head down and hope that no matter what happens, the thug driven elements of the OFS and Frontier Fleet don't blow your planet to shreds first?

Think "the House of Thomas" in the Meyers system for example. You duck and cover and look for a time when someone else's Navy kicks the OFS, Frontier Fleet, etc. out of the system and gives you a method of keeping your people safe?

So no, I don't think the Mayan model works in a Core World plus nearby systems. It'll only work when the "theoretical thug" (Barregos backed by Rozak) are actually white hats in disquise.

Actually, I think that the "mimic Maya" thing is what Manticore is going to be promoting. At least that is how I read the Harrington plan.

Don

n7axw wrote:Actually, I think that the "mimic Maya" thing is what Manticore is going to be promoting. At least that is how I read the Harrington plan.
Don

Kinda where I was going with my original post. I hadn't had that exact thought though.
It is what she was thinking though. Those who had a conscience would split when they could. Those would coudn't woupd be liberated by the GA and encouraged into those alliances

I think we may see a small circle of Beowulf adherents develop eventually, but it will take awhile.

Among other things, it will be extremely dangerous for the governing elements of any Beowulf daughter colonies that are tempted to go this way until the SL really comes unglued. THEY don't have a friendly 800lb gorilla with a Barrett rifle living right next door. And they know it.

Now, when GA/Beowulf operations techniques & resources mature to the point where they can offer to roll-in with a 40 SD interim security support TF and a rapid deployment modularized Mycroft construction fleet, the decision for Beowulf inclined systems will get easier.

Of course, by the time THOSE resources develop, the SL may already have been chunked to death.

dreamrider