Absurdly simple close combat firearm

I was poking around on YouTube and found an interesting video.

I had never considered how simple it might be to manufacture a shotgun. Please ignore the fact that the guy is shooting a CO2 cartridge out of the weapon, and just notice how simple the construction of the weapon itself is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6zEUYl5FlY

This is something easily within the capabilities of anyone that can make smoothebore weapons of any type.

If you have some sort of percussion cap, Two pieces. A stock with a big pipe, and a bump at the base of the pipe to act as a strike point for the percussion cap. Then a smaller pipe that can fit inside the bigger pipe.

Some sort of flint and steel insert could be placed at the bottom of shells without percussion caps to generate a spark from slamming the two pipes together.

Reloading is super easy and fast. Outgassing is all down the tube, away from the face, though heavy gloves would be a definite plus. A handle and hand guard might be added to the inner barrel, to facilitate reloading, prevent the barrel from going downfield, and protect the hands from outgassing.

I could very easily see something like this used in urban fighting or naval battles. The accuracy would probably be almost useless for open field battles though.

Heck, one could simply issue percussion caps and powder charges, and direct the soldiers to put sand, pebbles, and other improvised ammunition in it. This might wear the weapons out quickly but who cares, they are so simple and cheap to make.

There would be the problem of people losing half of their weapon, or whatever, but the construction is so simple that even without unified construction methods, a soldier could probably match most inner and outer barrels together and have a serviceable weapon.

Cheopis wrote:I was poking around on YouTube and found an interesting video.

I had never considered how simple it might be to manufacture a shotgun. Please ignore the fact that the guy is shooting a CO2 cartridge out of the weapon, and just notice how simple the construction of the weapon itself is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6zEUYl5FlY

This is something easily within the capabilities of anyone that can make smoothebore weapons of any type.

If you have some sort of percussion cap, Two pieces. A stock with a big pipe, and a bump at the base of the pipe to act as a strike point for the percussion cap. Then a smaller pipe that can fit inside the bigger pipe.

Some sort of flint and steel insert could be placed at the bottom of shells without percussion caps to generate a spark from slamming the two pipes together.

Reloading is super easy and fast. Outgassing is all down the tube, away from the face, though heavy gloves would be a definite plus. A handle and hand guard might be added to the inner barrel, to facilitate reloading, prevent the barrel from going downfield, and protect the hands from outgassing.

I could very easily see something like this used in urban fighting or naval battles. The accuracy would probably be almost useless for open field battles though.

Heck, one could simply issue percussion caps and powder charges, and direct the soldiers to put sand, pebbles, and other improvised ammunition in it. This might wear the weapons out quickly but who cares, they are so simple and cheap to make.

There would be the problem of people losing half of their weapon, or whatever, but the construction is so simple that even without unified construction methods, a soldier could probably match most inner and outer barrels together and have a serviceable weapon.

Yes, it's really simple. Captain Kirk made one with just some rocks and a hollow tree trunk.



(No, I'm not mocking you, Cheopis. While the Star Trek scene was absurd, it was not that absurd. You don't even need a perfect formula for gunpowder to make something that will be partially effective. It could be done the way Kirk did it, from what little I understand.)

SWM wrote:

Cheopis wrote:I was poking around on YouTube and found an interesting video.

I had never considered how simple it might be to manufacture a shotgun. Please ignore the fact that the guy is shooting a CO2 cartridge out of the weapon, and just notice how simple the construction of the weapon itself is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6zEUYl5FlY

This is something easily within the capabilities of anyone that can make smoothebore weapons of any type.

If you have some sort of percussion cap, Two pieces. A stock with a big pipe, and a bump at the base of the pipe to act as a strike point for the percussion cap. Then a smaller pipe that can fit inside the bigger pipe.

Some sort of flint and steel insert could be placed at the bottom of shells without percussion caps to generate a spark from slamming the two pipes together.

Reloading is super easy and fast. Outgassing is all down the tube, away from the face, though heavy gloves would be a definite plus. A handle and hand guard might be added to the inner barrel, to facilitate reloading, prevent the barrel from going downfield, and protect the hands from outgassing.

I could very easily see something like this used in urban fighting or naval battles. The accuracy would probably be almost useless for open field battles though.

Heck, one could simply issue percussion caps and powder charges, and direct the soldiers to put sand, pebbles, and other improvised ammunition in it. This might wear the weapons out quickly but who cares, they are so simple and cheap to make.

There would be the problem of people losing half of their weapon, or whatever, but the construction is so simple that even without unified construction methods, a soldier could probably match most inner and outer barrels together and have a serviceable weapon.

Yes, it's really simple. Captain Kirk made one with just some rocks and a hollow tree trunk.



(No, I'm not mocking you, Cheopis. While the Star Trek scene was absurd, it was not that absurd. You don't even need a perfect formula for gunpowder to make something that will be partially effective. It could be done the way Kirk did it, from what little I understand.)

The episode you are referencing is TOS 'Arena' and he used a tube from bamboo as his 'gun barrel'.

No you cannot. Gun powder is much harder to make than throwing some ingredients together in random portions.

That said yes with some type of percussion cap making a crude shotgun(blunderbuss) is quite possible. However I would submit that the lack of range at anything above near melee combat ranges makes such a weapon of little use except in specific situations, like ship boarding or storming a house.

Highjohn wrote:No you cannot. Gun powder is much harder to make than throwing some ingredients together in random portions.

That said yes with some type of percussion cap making a crude shotgun(blunderbuss) is quite possible. However I would submit that the lack of range at anything above near melee combat ranges makes such a weapon of little use except in specific situations, like ship boarding or storming a house.

I didn't talk about "throwing some ingredients together in random proportions." I just said that the formula does not need to be absolutely precise, that it would be possible (if one knew the formula) to put something like that together with the materials at hand, well enough to work to some extent.

Highjohn wrote:No you cannot. Gun powder is much harder to make than throwing some ingredients together in random portions.

That said yes with some type of percussion cap making a crude shotgun(blunderbuss) is quite possible. However I would submit that the lack of range at anything above near melee combat ranges makes such a weapon of little use except in specific situations, like ship boarding or storming a house.

Or blowing holes in a charge...

Don

n7axw wrote:

Highjohn wrote:No you cannot. Gun powder is much harder to make than throwing some ingredients together in random portions.

That said yes with some type of percussion cap making a crude shotgun(blunderbuss) is quite possible. However I would submit that the lack of range at anything above near melee combat ranges makes such a weapon of little use except in specific situations, like ship boarding or storming a house.

Or blowing holes in a charge...

Don

Would you see any Safehold army building and issuing these for that purpose though? It's unlikely that multiple longarms are going to be issued to infantry on any regular or large-scale basis, and I'd think that too much of what you'd accomplish with these would be done well enough with rifles, pistols, grenades, organ guns, and/or mortars.

I could see simple shotguns - essentially upgraded, modernized wolves - used as a way of giving merchant galleons something to make boarding them unpleasant. But at this point, Temple-loyal privateers are sailing ships with serious cannon and content enough to destroy shipping if taking it would be that difficult. And in a pinch, some broadsides are likely to leave the merchant with mounted wolves dismounted and the crew in lousy shape to resist before the ship is sunk, leaving boarding as still mostly a formality.

I suppose there's some role for combat shotguns as a specialized tool some troops would swap out rifles for in urban combat or really thick forests or jungles. But it's harder for me to see a Safehold army bothering to work up the production lines or circles for something that specialized, or committing to the logistical support of it.

n7axw wrote:

Highjohn wrote:No you cannot. Gun powder is much harder to make than throwing some ingredients together in random portions.

That said yes with some type of percussion cap making a crude shotgun(blunderbuss) is quite possible. However I would submit that the lack of range at anything above near melee combat ranges makes such a weapon of little use except in specific situations, like ship boarding or storming a house.

Or blowing holes in a charge...

Don

And a load of double ought (or its equivalent) at those ranges would be sure to mess up someone's day quite properly. I wonder if he's considered a multiple barrel variant- use the cap and ball approach, as I would tend to think getting pre made shells would be difficult if not downright impossible- you might be able to get 5 or 6 shots out of it before reloading, making it much more effective in those close range situations. And having 2 or 3 sets of preloaded barrels per soldier...

Cheopis wrote:I could very easily see something like this used in urban fighting or naval battles. The accuracy would probably be almost useless for open field battles though.

The only use I can see for a weapon like this is to gain access to a real weapon. The concept is similar to the FP-45 Liberator Pistol of 1942:

The Liberator was shipped in a cardboard box with 10 rounds of .45 ACP ammunition, a wooden dowel to remove the empty cartridge case, and an instruction sheet in comic strip form[3] showing how to load and fire the weapon. Extra ammunition could be stored in the pistol grip. The Liberator was a crude and clumsy weapon, never intended for front line service. It was originally intended as an insurgency weapon to be mass dropped behind enemy lines to resistance fighters in occupied territory. A resistance fighter was to recover the gun, sneak up on an Axis occupier, kill or incapacitate him, and retrieve his weapons.

I would like to point out that Cayleb once mentioned wanting to shoot his sister's pet bird with a shotgun.

Aka, shotguns exist, although I don't know what form they take.