Seminaries CoC

JeffEngel wrote:Spreading the Order of St. Zherneau and its sister order - in spirit if not in name, and at the "outer circle" level of just prepping for an independent role of conscience - to other islands in the EoC and perhaps Siddermark, is one key early step.

I expect Irys to be sponsoring a Royal College of Corisande soon, on the Charisian model. Corisande's got at least a quiet, potential hankering after innovation to tap into, and that kind of active role in the EoC and CoC, as a participant and peer instead of as an occupied subject, should do a lot to restore and work with Corisandian national pride. Corisande could emphasize agriculture and civil engineering (fields the Royal College of Charis do not seem to be making a point of pushing) to set itself off as a genuine partner rather than a student just trying to catch up.

A third national college system in Chisholm would make sense too - it may also be something that could draw in noble sponsorship as a way to get the aristocrats pumping up their own pride and sense of importance without running contrary to the crown for once. (Compare Louis XIV drawing in French nobility to Versailles as courtiers, but make it something useful.) Emerald, Tarot, and Zebediah would likely fall into the intellectual orbits of the larger components of the EoC, but if they could establish each of them some lead in some particular field, it'd be great for their own sense of purpose too.

The Church on Safehold does too much to try to peel off too many of its functions too quickly or to risk catastrophic disintegration. But history's got a lot of models of established churches on Earth losing their religious teeth and becoming more or less simple public institutions. Duchairn and Staynair both are fine leaders for renewing the public welfare roles of the Church on either side of the schism - feeding people, teaching people, maintaining their legal systems, and delivering the groundwork for farming, animal husbandry, terraforming, and geography. The CoC particularly is well able to keep pumping up all of those and keep distancing those functions from theology.

One element of that may be less downplaying the Archangels and instead emphasizing their role as teachers rather than authorities - in effect, Bedard, Pasquale, Langhorne, Truscott, Hastings, Andropov, and Sondheim as Safehold's first therapist, doctor, lawyer, rancher, geographer, statistician, and farmer. The Writ's an excellent primer for getting life on Safehold rolling - there's no plausible way to deny that, and if you do downplay the supernatural aspects, the way is open to read them as the people beginning science and inquiry on Safehold. You just have to read them as starting the process, not as delivering the last and final word.

lyonheart wrote:Hi JeffEngel,
Regarding Corisande emphasizing agriculture and civil engineering, we know rather little of all that the RC teaches, but in its zeal to collect all useful knowledge both of those would be very high priorities even if they aren't heralded in the books very much.

Given the excellence of Charisian agricultural equipment, I suspect both the college and the manufacturers have invested in considerable research, and some companies may know as much as the RC.

JeffEngel wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi JeffEngel,
Regarding Corisande emphasizing agriculture and civil engineering, we know rather little of all that the RC teaches, but in its zeal to collect all useful knowledge both of those would be very high priorities even if they aren't heralded in the books very much.

Given the excellence of Charisian agricultural equipment, I suspect both the college and the manufacturers have invested in considerable research, and some companies may know as much as the RC.

True. I'm reasoning from having heard about nothing of the sort in the Royal College to supposing there's at most probably not much of that, but there's certainly going to be a lot that doesn't make it into the books going on there. And it could be that the institutions behind that knowledge in Charis simply are other ones than the RC - but in that case, the institutions that may play that role in Corisande, Chisholm and elsewhere could be royal colleges, corporations... or seminaries in the Orders of Truscott or Sondheim, for that matter.

I hadn't gotten any impression of Charis as an agricultural powerhouse, but then, we know Tellesberg's primarily fed by local farms - as opposed to, say, bulk shipping of food from Emerald or Tarot or fish, fish, and a side of fish. But that agriculture's presumably powered by mechanizing all they can, since (1) quality ironwork is available right there, and (2) there's too much competition for labor to keep lots of farmers working for lousy wages anywhere you can use gear and/or draft animals instead. (And there's the long tropical growing seasons and, yes, fish - which could in turn provide handy fertilizer too.)

lyonheart wrote:Hi JeffEngel,

We've had glimpses of Charisian agricultural expertise in selling agricultural equipment to Harchong despite their very cheap serfs in BHD, and the data-dump in MTaT; regarding the great variety, excellence, and continued improvement of all Charisian agricultural equipment long before Merlin ever showed up, its quality being the major reason Charis was called "the iron monger of the world" and which has continued to climb sharply despite not being on his critical list, demonstrated by the efficiency of the latest mentioned.

One doesn't have to be a agricultural 'powerhouse' to export surpluses [the tropical three crops a year helps] or make the best equipment, as has been demonstrated here on earth in too many fields to mention.

L

JeffEngel wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi JeffEngel,

We've had glimpses of Charisian agricultural expertise in selling agricultural equipment to Harchong despite their very cheap serfs in BHD, and the data-dump in MTaT; regarding the great variety, excellence, and continued improvement of all Charisian agricultural equipment long before Merlin ever showed up, its quality being the major reason Charis was called "the iron monger of the world" and which has continued to climb sharply despite not being on his critical list, demonstrated by the efficiency of the latest mentioned.

One doesn't have to be a agricultural 'powerhouse' to export surpluses [the tropical three crops a year helps] or make the best equipment, as has been demonstrated here on earth in too many fields to mention.

L

Well - judging from the additional acreage put into farming to support Siddarmark, and that finished products are likely to be the main thing shipped out of Charis traditionally, I'd still figure that Charisian agriculture has usually been more about feeding Charis with minimal labor rather than exporting a whole lot of food with more than minimal labor.

But all right, certainly they are the farm equipment production leader of the world and likely have with it and their keen use for labor elsewhere a high level of agricultural skill as well, so farming colleges elsewhere are likely to be more about adapting and spreading Charisian methods rather than leaving them behind.

About Harchong though - and this is a blatant tangent....

Harchong's got gross corruption among the bureaucrats and aristocracy; it's got a puny, inefficient metalworking industry except partially where the Church has been taking it over for arms production (including likely every relatively good or large manufactory); and it's got a whole lot of serfdom being dragged away from the fields and into the Mighty Host.

That combination makes me think that plow smuggling could be big business for Charis in Harchong ports. There's that relative labor shortage, the inability to make much of anything but Church guns themselves right now, and plenty of movers and shakers who care a lot more about money and power than about religion. Siddarmark flags to cover Charisian shipping aren't necessarily available right now, but perhaps some smugglers could claim to be Temple Loyalist Siddarmarkians with "captured" Charisian goods - if the local Harchong potentates are content to accept that figleaf. And if not Siddarmark or Silkiahan flags of convenience, some small amount of traffic could perhaps go through under cover of supposed Trellheim or Fallosian ownership.

If Charis doesn't view it as a treasure that must not fall into enemy hands, the steel thistle gin would allow Harchong's existing steel thistle production to quit killing slaves and produce much more with fewer people and far fewer dying in the process. For smugglers and steel thistle mongers, that'd mean a lot of profit; for Charis, a continued erosion of the practical loyalty of Harchong to the Temple; for Safehold, a big dent in Harchong's huge and backward social matrix.