Manpower shortage

Hi Biochem,

That's a good point. Upon entering the Temple Lands the territory will be potentially hostile. We really don't know how well armed the populace is or even if they are armed at all. So any supply convoys would probably be under heavy escort.

One mitigating factor might be that as they march toward Zion, their supply lines would eventually start to shorten since sea passage to the north of Haven would be possible at least half the year and supplies could be transported that way rather than across half a continet. In a sense they would be marching toward their sourse of supply with no organized opposition in front of them presuming the Harchongians have been dealt with.

Of course if the AOG were to raise and equip another army, my notion of things goes out the airlock... I wonder if escort duty for supplies might not be a good job for Windshare's re-equiped calvary.

Don

Hi Lyonheart,

Perhaps I'm being pessimistic here, but I think you are over estimating the eagerness of places like the Temple Lands, Harchong and Desnair to get rid of the inquisition.

I doubt that the inquisition is loved anywhere, but these people are deeply conservative and haven't seen the inquisition's excesses the way Siddarmark has. I would expect that many of these folk agree with God's plan and how heretics are to be treated. I could even envision inquisitors leading resistance movements behind allied lines.

So Biochem's concerns about long exposed supply lines is well taken.

Don

n7axw wrote:Hi Lyonheart,

Perhaps I'm being pessimistic here, but I think you are over estimating the eagerness of places like the Temple Lands, Harchong and Desnair to get rid of the inquisition.

I doubt that the inquisition is loved anywhere, but these people are deeply conservative and haven't seen the inquisition's excesses the way Siddarmark has. I would expect that many of these folk agree with God's plan and how heretics are to be treated. I could even envision inquisitors leading resistance movements behind allied lines.

So Biochem's concerns about long exposed supply lines is well taken.

Don

During WWII, the German incursion of Russia in the Ukraine was originally viewed as a liberation. It didn't take long for the SS to change that. One of the reasons Siddarmark is so opposed to the Inquisition now is their past behavior. Perhaps is was is needed is a few incidents in the rear areas of Desnair or the Temple Lands, and then let the Inquisition create its own enemies.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

n7axw wrote:Hi Lyonheart,

Perhaps I'm being pessimistic here, but I think you are over estimating the eagerness of places like the Temple Lands, Harchong and Desnair to get rid of the inquisition.

I doubt that the inquisition is loved anywhere, but these people are deeply conservative and haven't seen the inquisition's excesses the way Siddarmark has. I would expect that many of these folk agree with God's plan and how heretics are to be treated. I could even envision inquisitors leading resistance movements behind allied lines.

So Biochem's concerns about long exposed supply lines is well taken.

Don

During WWII, the German incursion of Russia in the Ukraine was originally viewed as a liberation. It didn't take long for the SS to change that. One of the reasons Siddarmark is so opposed to the Inquisition now is their past behavior. Perhaps is was is needed is a few incidents in the rear areas of Desnair or the Temple Lands, and then let the Inquisition create its own enemies.

Welcome! Keep the comments coming and have the first digital adult beverage on the house.

Indeed so, Don. I wonder what those Border Kingdoms will think of the concentration camps? What on earth did those caught up in those camps do to deserve what they suffered through? How many survived the winter and how many more will be interned and later interred at those camps?

That seems to me the key element in shaking the Border Kingdoms confidence in the Inquisition.

n7axw wrote:Hi Lyonheart,

Perhaps I'm being pessimistic here, but I think you are over estimating the eagerness of places like the Temple Lands, Harchong and Desnair to get rid of the inquisition.

I doubt that the inquisition is loved anywhere, but these people are deeply conservative and haven't seen the inquisition's excesses the way Siddarmark has. I would expect that many of these folk agree with God's plan and how heretics are to be treated. I could even envision inquisitors leading resistance movements behind allied lines.

So Biochem's concerns about long exposed supply lines is well taken.

Don

=2014/11/04=

Hi L

When my computer started eating my posts before I had finished it and hit "send" I changed my "modus operandi"

Now when I have a lengthy post, I first enter it in a local text file. Then, if my computer craps on me. I can still retrieve the text file up to the last time I saved it when my machine reboots.

This allows me to continue from where I left off.

Once the post is done, I just make a copy and paste it to the forum's message page and hit "send".

If the post did not work the first time, I can try again without having to re-enter it.

Just say'n

?? Comments ??

R
.

=2014/11/04=
WELCOME TO THE FORUMS !!

I have as much enjoyment reading and posting here as I do reading the actual stories!!

Once again, welcome -- and enjoy !!

R
.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

n7axw wrote:Hi Lyonheart,

Perhaps I'm being pessimistic here, but I think you are over estimating the eagerness of places like the Temple Lands, Harchong and Desnair to get rid of the inquisition.

I doubt that the inquisition is loved anywhere, but these people are deeply conservative and haven't seen the inquisition's excesses the way Siddarmark has. I would expect that many of these folk agree with God's plan and how heretics are to be treated. I could even envision inquisitors leading resistance movements behind allied lines.

So Biochem's concerns about long exposed supply lines is well taken.

Don

During WWII, the German incursion of Russia in the Ukraine was originally viewed as a liberation. It didn't take long for the SS to change that. One of the reasons Siddarmark is so opposed to the Inquisition now is their past behavior. Perhaps is was is needed is a few incidents in the rear areas of Desnair or the Temple Lands, and then let the Inquisition create its own enemies.

n7axw wrote:(snip)
I think there needs to be a distinction between conquest of the Temple Lands with intent to seize and hold, on the one hand, and overrunning the Temple lands to get at Zion on the other. The latter is probably necessary, if for no other reason than to keep the pressure on and preventing them from regrouping. I think you are under estimating the death grip the inquisition has on the lands it controls. The normal sort of political pressure one would expect is going to be pretty much squelched by Clyntahn's reign of terror which will out last him even if he is taken out of the picture.

I agree that the Inquisition's influence (and in particular Clyntahn's) needs to be broken. It might be that doing that forcibly is necessary. In that case, going directly for Zion (the raid option) is fully on the table. But, I'm not sure that sending the boys in is actually the best way for that purpose. Allowing the Inquisition to turn on itself using Aivah and fostering an internal insurrection might be more advantageous. For that, enemy armies right around the corner might be contraproductive.

lyonheart wrote:I don't see how Anwi can think HFQ and the follow on books can be as static as he seems to think things will be

It seems that irony is derived from iron, I guess...

lyonheart wrote:I don't see that many alliance supply routes through the Border States and the Temple Lands in the first place, since I expect BGV to go to Zion via Temple Bay courtesy of the ICN from Spinefish Bay, Symkyn and EHM mainly from the Charayn Canal an the Sabana River, with any advance down the Langhorne from the north mainly using captured supply barges.
]
Anwi sees the destruction of the MHoGatA, but evidently assumes another unknown unmentioned force is ready behind it, ready to resume the fight, when from all the textev, there is nothing.

I agree that the raid option is on the table. I'm not sure about the objectives, though. As to the rest, see the other post.

lyonheart wrote:The manpower Charis needs for its new industries are far fewer than it's military requirements, who have a far wider pool of manpower from the whole empire in the first place.

I'm not so sure. You need manpower (and womanpower) for agriculture (not that much improvement as yet), for building up the industries, for managing the increased trade and logistics, for work in the mines, for fishing and whaling - sorry: sea dragoning, for doing accounting and administration, for supporting the troops in the field, etc. With the numbers Charis and Siddarmark have put into the field (given the small population base) and them limited to rather few age brackets, certain age groups should be drafted to a large percentage to military service, already. Building up the ICN and ICA to significantly larger numbers should run into the manpower limits the EoC can sustain without switching to a full war economy. And they haven't done that and probably won't want to.

Hi Anwi,

Well, between us let's see if we can come up with some numbers. You feel free to refine this, Lyonheart since you're better than I with numbers. We know the numbers for Charis. Charis' population is 72,000,000 with about 400,000 for their army and 300,000 for their navy as of the beginning of the campaign in MTAT. It terms of the casualties, the Empire has yet to take a real strong hit except for Taisyn and that mess on the Daivyn.

Siddarmark is a lot more problematic since it took a real direct hit in the campaign. We know that at the start, Siddarmark was 131,000, with armed forces in the range of 1.5 million. But between defections and combat losses that total was reduced to about 100,000 million with about 70,000,000 being concentrated in Old Province. Since Charis arrived, Siddarmark will have converted about 180,000 men over to rifles with large numbers of regular army and militia still to be converted over and reorganized. In addition to that, Siddarmark has been furiously recruiting and it is not hard to assume that her army will reach its former size, this time with modern arms.

IIRC, Merlin was expecting the allies armed forces to eventually reach 4-5 percent of total population which between the two lets call at roughly 170,000,000. That would be about 8.5 million under arms. I suspect that Siddarmark's percentage will end up somewhat higher and the EOCs somewhat lower since Charis will have the burden of being the alliance's arsenal.

The thing is, what the alliance is really counting on is how much better she will be armed and how much more efficient her manufactories are than the bad guys. It is not really necessary for her to match the COGA man for man. In fact, I suspect that given that, I suspect that the alliance can win being outnumbered 3 or 4 to one. And the thing is, the tech gap is widening, not narrowing as of the end of LAMA.

So the chokepoint isn't a manpower issue. The problem is that the alliance still doesn't have a large enough industrial base to arm the men she can field promptly, especially on the army side of things. That's not so much a manpower issue as it is the reality that the needed factories are still in the process of being built and people trained to man them. I would expect the EOC's armed forces to expand somewhat from here, but perhaps not hugely so. More will be put into manning the assembly lines, raising food, etc.

That's how it looks from here, anyway. My numbers off the top of my head are a bit rough, but I doubt that refining them will change the picture dramatically.

Don

Hi SWM,

My apologies.

I can only say it's part of my thinking, and I forgot some resist the snippets.

Such character and will is incredible!

How do you do it?

L

SWM wrote:Lyonheart, please stop mentioning that organization without SPOILER warnings. I understand that it's easy to forget, but this is the fifth or sixth time you've done it. I've already accidentally learned more about it than I wanted to.