Official HFQ Snippet #10

jgnfld wrote:

Graydon wrote:...
How much daylight do you have? It gets colder when it gets dark, and moving in the dark is more dangerous
...

For movements, night is not a terrible obstacle to ski troops, and I assume snowshoe troops as well. In the farther northern regions in winter, the hi pressure systems lead to crystal clear air and even starlight provides enough illumination for going along a track in the open.

If there is a half-to-full moon, it can be like daylight. Certainly the Finns did a lot of night movements in the Winter War. Certainly I never had any trouble along any sort along an established trail unlighted when I lived in Minnesota and did a lot of cross country skiing. If you only operated during the day, you only operate for hours at anything over 45N. In Finland you would hardly be able to operate at all!

Ski troops were considered to be more rather than less mobile than the same units in the summer as rivers and lakes become fast supply corridors and cross country skiing is inherently faster than slogging. Snowshoeing is slower, of course. I have seen my son's winter infantry equipment. The Cdn infantry uses snowshoes made out of magnesium which, of course, can be used for several other purposes! Maybe Merlin should suggest something along those lines!!!

isaac_newton wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Randomiser,

By my measurement its at least 1400 miles by canal and river to Guarnak from Lake City, so the MHoGatA is around 80 days if not more than three month's, so we're looking at June-July before they become a real problem.

I have to clarify; I never meant to imply I agreed with those who thought BGV was or should be headed for Lake City before dealing with Wyrshym.

That also means eliminating the Northland Gap garrisons with Gorthyk Nybar at the top of the list because he's so good, along with the other general who's been retraining his division.

Eliminating them so the lessons they've learned are not passed along to the rest of the AoG or the MHoGatA, is one great advantage of the winter campaign; non-surrendered survivors will be few if not non-existent.

It's still March, though when in March is the question.

Given the Army of the Sylman's inability to march in this weather, destruction in detail seems a golden opportunity for BGV, if the rest of the AoS [the only AoS left] is largely split between Guarnak and the Wyvern Lake shore front so they're as small as if not individually smaller than BGV's ~30K, especially if those camps represent the 16-20% of Wyrshym's army I've posted before [if BGV attacks the Northern Gap from the rear or supply routes, this will remind me even more strongly of Richard O'Connor's attacks on the Italian camps in Operation Compass.

We don't have textev for any other army posts between Guarnak and the Northern Gap, though there are probably garrisons in the few towns and watches at the bridges over the Ice Ash and Kalgaran rivers, eastern front experience in WWII indicated that 3' of ice would support the heaviest of tanks, which implies the sleds of the scout snipers, dragoons, and infantry ought to do just fine on less if they choose to cross at unwatched fords north of the bridges.

So given very bad blizzards that keeps the semaphore line from working for days and Wyrshym may nor know what's happening until St. Zhana is taken, and perhaps not even then if the weather is still bad.

So the first inkling Bahrnabai may get is when BGV arrives outside Guarnak, or takes a position astride his supply line, perhaps a day or two or even a 5 day west.

However since I prefer the destroy in detail option, however elegant simply cutting his supplies again is, I'd expect the Guarnak garrison to be eliminated before the
Lake Wyvern shore defense group is able to move to join it, which is then destroyed by both BGV and the alliance force that's been holding the southern Lake shore until BGV gives the word it's finally time to move.

snip

Hi Lyonheart

I'm with you on this. Especially if W has to rush troops from their winter campments to try to hold the Ohlarhn Gap - for under equipped troops that would serious degrade their effectiveness even before combat.

Something that does interest me is what state the semaphore chain is actually in? I had assumed that it was ok from Midhold right back to Guarnack - given the speed at which Wrysham go the news about BGV's initial attack up the Tairmina canal to Maiyam.

glared at the...misfortune to bring him the semaphore dispatch

However in snippet 9 we saw BGV' engineers repairing a tower in the Midhold plateau on his march from Allyntyn - so I'm wondering how operative that chain still is - especially if some towers by the Ish Ash canal were taken out before [by Merlin] and during the great canal raid.

I.e. is Wrysham able to work with a complete chain of semaphore communications? or has he had to improvise stop gaps?

Of course, I suppose that there might be more than one chain across Midhold...

Graydon wrote:

jgnfld wrote:For movements, night is not a terrible obstacle to ski troops, and I assume snowshoe troops as well. In the farther northern regions in winter, the hi pressure systems lead to crystal clear air and even starlight provides enough illumination for going along a track in the open.

Under which conditions it is maximally cold. You can rip your lungs out exercising in weather like that; it's very cold and extremely dry.

If there is a half-to-full moon, it can be like daylight. Certainly the Finns did a lot of night movements in the Winter War. Certainly I never had any trouble along any sort along an established trail unlighted when I lived in Minnesota and did a lot of cross country skiing. If you only operated during the day, you only operate for hours at anything over 45N. In Finland you would hardly be able to operate at all!

Graydon wrote:"The Finns can do it" is not a good baseline set of assumptions for anybody else! (Look up what you have to do to get a Mannerheim Cross sometime.) And even the Finns did a lot of things in the Winter War because they had to, not because anybody would say it was a good idea.

And yes, of course night movement is possible. It's not as safe, and you're trying to move an army corps in a way that preserves strategic surprise; you're very likely avoiding settled regions with sufficient roads. (All this emphasis on snowshoes and sleds to me implies cross-country mobility.) And it's only "like daylight" until you have to judge stuff like "how deep is this hole?" and "does that distant bit of darkness under those trees contain movement?" or even "how far away is Two Platoon?"

Graydon wrote:

Ski troops were considered to be more rather than less mobile than the same units in the summer as rivers and lakes become fast supply corridors and cross country skiing is inherently faster than slogging. Snowshoeing is slower, of course. I have seen my son's winter infantry equipment. The Cdn infantry uses snowshoes made out of magnesium which, of course, can be used for several other purposes! Maybe Merlin should suggest something along those lines!!!

If you've got a reliably frozen river to follow, absolutely. It's a flat surface, you more or less cannot get lost, and you don't have many obstacles to contend with because there aren't many obstacles in a river. If you're going cross-country, especially cross-country in wooded country, which is sounds like BGV's force is doing, it's different. Much more concern about route and it's not flat. Makes a big difference.

While I have fond memories of those robust and reliable snowshoes, magnesium is one of those electrical-refining-only metals, like aluminium and titanium. So not just yet.

anwi wrote:snip
... And thawing should begin sometime in April...

jgnfld wrote:
<snip>
If there is a half-to-full moon, it can be like daylight. <snip>

Braudel26 wrote:

anwi wrote:snip
... And thawing should begin sometime in April...

No january and length of winter nearly half year this north, thawing could begin as late as mid or even end May
So BGW has time enough to reach Guarnak or just behind before that