Lacöon I

its more probably that the transtellers utilise their own independent encryption for messages being sent by independent vessels.

kzt wrote:The Hauptman Cartel lost their entire ship building division. They lost all their scheduled routes into to SL. They lost all their delivery runs into Manti space as they have no product to ship. I believe they were also an insurance company, how big do you think the payout to revenue ratio was that month?

So they are going to be bailing like mad, as they have a desperate cash flow problem. If they can make it to the other side they are fine, but they are very much not fine right now.

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The Hauptman Cartel was running a lot of shipping in Silecia -- that and the runs to the Andies has not changed, other than being safer since the Silies are now under Andie and SEM Protectorates. I am sure that Hauptman also has multiple runs to Beowulf and now runs to the Talbott Quadrant. Opening up the Haven Sector to Manty commerce will replace most lost shipping to the League.
Basically, all the Hauptman Cartel lost (like the rest of Manticore) was their shipyard / shipbuilding division and the personnel in that effort.
The Yards can be re-built (and likely soon). The surviving personnel and new hires / new trainees will be making ATLAS liners and ATLAS variants as fast as they can get the materials.
BTW I foresee a Navy variant of the Hauptman ATLAS Liner as a fast-transport / fleet hospital ship.

-- Just my 2 cents (or credits)

-- Stewart

n7axw wrote:

KNick wrote:As for the mail carriers, I could see them doing such things as refusing to carry official League dispatches, mail for any member of the bureaucracy or the Navy. After all, it is the League that would have to shut them down, because Manticore has already granted them passage (for the normal transit fees).

I have it stuck in my head somewhere that dispatch boats and mail carriers are exempt and allowed to pass through Lacoon... Am I off the beam on this?

Don

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Don --

I believe you are correct, although I cannot find the exact text right now, but I also recall couriers, dispatch boats and those registered to recognized inter-stellar news agencies could pass thru.

That does beg the question though, How good are the sensors on a dispatch boat -- even one purpose built with GOOD passive sensors ?

I am thinking certain un-named reporters who were doing (knowingly or unknowingly) intel and damage assessment for Sadamm during the first Gulf War.

Solaran News Dispatch Boat passes thru a junction and then reports what it has seen.

-- Stewart

Zakharra wrote:

SYED wrote:We ar forgetting at some point the alliance will be raiding hteir infrastructure and industry, so those systems actually capable of building freighters might soon be targeted.

If they do that, the GA stands to piss off a LOT of the populations of those worlds because they would be destroying the system's orbital industrial infrastructure and preventing the system from improving its own economy.

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The first GA Targets are going to be the SLN Battle Fleet bases and NAVAL shipyards. -- Those yards designed and capable of support / repair of a major military ship.

Compare a Bremerton NSY or Norfolk-Newport News as a current example of a Naval support capable yard and Todd Pacific (San Pedro / Los Angeles) as a civilian / commercial yard.
the ship sizes may be similar, but the necessary support infrastructure is not there.

Terekov did not hit the civilian side of the Monica yards (although they were hip-deep in it and all knew it)

The military yards are toast, the civilian yards are likely just going to get a very THOROUGH inspection.

-- Stewart

stewart wrote:

Zakharra wrote: quote="SYED"We ar forgetting at some point the alliance will be raiding hteir infrastructure and industry, so those systems actually capable of building freighters might soon be targeted. quote


If they do that, the GA stands to piss off a LOT of the populations of those worlds because they would be destroying the system's orbital industrial infrastructure and preventing the system from improving its own economy.

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The first GA Targets are going to be the SLN Battle Fleet bases and NAVAL shipyards. -- Those yards designed and capable of support / repair of a major military ship.

Compare a Bremerton NSY or Norfolk-Newport News as a current example of a Naval support capable yard and Todd Pacific (San Pedro / Los Angeles) as a civilian / commercial yard.
the ship sizes may be similar, but the necessary support infrastructure is not there.

Terekov did not hit the civilian side of the Monica yards (although they were hip-deep in it and all knew it)

The military yards are toast, the civilian yards are likely just going to get a very THOROUGH inspection.

-- Stewart

An insp4ection by whom? Pretty much all shipyards in the SL are gearing up to start churning out ships. I can see a lot of them building both civilian and military vessels (if only for SDF reasons). There's a LOT of ships that are suddenly needed just for the civilian market, now the SLN needs a hell of a lot of ships (small ones) built for raiding purposes as well as defense. It's very likely that for while, there will be a hodgepodge of ships being built and even in yards building just military ships, no system is going to like anyone, even the GA coming in and wrecking the yards. Even if the military yards is all they destroy. That's a loss of life and massive investment capital, not to mention that it means that military ship building would have to move to the civilian yards. I can;t see how any system is going to be happy with the GA for just destroying military targets in their system.

stewart wrote:The Hauptman Cartel was running a lot of shipping in Silecia -- that and the runs to the Andies has not changed, other than being safer since the Silies are now under Andie and SEM Protectorates. I am sure that Hauptman also has multiple runs to Beowulf and now runs to the Talbott Quadrant. Opening up the Haven Sector to Manty commerce will replace most lost shipping to the League.

Sure. And they are shipping WHAT? Rocks? There are NO finished goods,as the factories all blowed up. They could ship them good from the SL, but no, they can't. So what the heck do you think they are shipping to them?

Oh, and all the stuff they had under contract for delivery, but the factory blowed up? They will need to refund any up-front charges, but still need to pay the crews and finance charges on the ships that have nothing to ship.

For goods they were shipping to the SL? They owe a LOT of money to their customers.

And they owe death benefits for tens of thousands to multiple hundreds of thousands of employees and their families. What is the payment you owe the family for someone who got killed at age 30 making $85,000/year with 250 years of working time ahead?

kzt wrote:

stewart wrote:The Hauptman Cartel was running a lot of shipping in Silecia -- that and the runs to the Andies has not changed, other than being safer since the Silies are now under Andie and SEM Protectorates. I am sure that Hauptman also has multiple runs to Beowulf and now runs to the Talbott Quadrant. Opening up the Haven Sector to Manty commerce will replace most lost shipping to the League.

Sure. And they are shipping WHAT? Rocks? There are NO finished goods,as the factories all blowed up. They could ship them good from the SL, but no, they can't. So what the heck do you think they are shipping to them?

Oh, and all the stuff they had under contract for delivery, but the factory blowed up? They will need to refund any up-front charges, but still need to pay the crews and finance charges on the ships that have nothing to ship.

For goods they were shipping to the SL? They owe a LOT of money to their customers.

And they owe death benefits for tens of thousands to multiple hundreds of thousands of employees and their families. What is the payment you owe the family for someone who got killed at age 30 making $85,000/year with 250 years of working time ahead?

This raises the question of does force majeure exist in the Honorverse. And do their contracts and laws governing them have war clauses.

Vince wrote:This raises the question of does force majeure exist in the Honorverse. And do their contracts and laws governing them have war clauses.

more than likely after all the SKM/SEM has been in a state of cold war and hot war for the last 60 years plus their experience in Confederacy (plus other Pirate hot spots).

Also, there were comments about contracts containing acts of god/acts of war clauses.

stewart wrote:[The first GA Targets are going to be the SLN Battle Fleet bases and NAVAL shipyards. -- Those yards designed and capable of support / repair of a major military ship.

Compare a Bremerton NSY or Norfolk-Newport News as a current example of a Naval support capable yard and Todd Pacific (San Pedro / Los Angeles) as a civilian / commercial yard.
the ship sizes may be similar, but the necessary support infrastructure is not there.

Terekov did not hit the civilian side of the Monica yards (although they were hip-deep in it and all knew it)

The military yards are toast, the civilian yards are likely just going to get a very THOROUGH inspection.

-- Stewart

Zakharra wrote: An inspection by whom? Pretty much all shipyards in the SL are gearing up to start churning out ships. I can see a lot of them building both civilian and military vessels (if only for SDF reasons). There's a LOT of ships that are suddenly needed just for the civilian market, now the SLN needs a hell of a lot of ships (small ones) built for raiding purposes as well as defense. It's very likely that for while, there will be a hodgepodge of ships being built and even in yards building just military ships, no system is going to like anyone, even the GA coming in and wrecking the yards. Even if the military yards is all they destroy. That's a loss of life and massive investment capital, not to mention that it means that military ship building would have to move to the civilian yards. I can;t see how any system is going to be happy with the GA for just destroying military targets in their system.

While I see your point, Zakharra, I think you're underestimating the time line. The Battle of Spindle and Oyster Bay occured in Feb 1922 and Lacoon II began really kicking into operation around June 1922, post-Filareta. The withdrawal of the MMM was somewhere between those times, IIRC.

Most of the Core and Shell knows about Spindle, and is now aware that their economy is being affected, but there has simply not been enough time to hold the meetings, order the ships (commercial and military), contract for the ships (and I do not expect government/military contracting to be any simpler in the future than it is now), allocate the resources and build the ships, and then crew them.

And commercial ships are normally built/paid for by commercial organizations..i.e., the transtellars, who are about to find themselves in some economic trouble....

Either way, it's going to take time. And that is a commodity the SL is going to find themselves fatally short of. And that Manticore/GA can exploit politically as well as militarily if they are smart.

IMHO as always. YMMV.