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Information I'd love to know

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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by cthia   » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:56 am

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Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Did mankind foresee the aftermath of greatly exceeding safe acceleration before or after inertial compensator design?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:04 am

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Annachie wrote:
Weird Harold wrote:
About the size of a dispatch boat since dispatch boats are "as small as they can be and still mount a hyper-generator."

You could eliminate everything except life-support for a pilot and the sails, hyper-generator, and wedge and reduce the size some, but a ship that can only transport one pilot is pretty useless.

Actually I was thinking specifically about junction control courier boats.

Don't need more than a day of canned air per crew. Same with food. Minimal berthing, none really.
Go out do your 12 hours and then doc at Junction Control while the other shift takes ship 2 out. Just a thought.

I can't imagine the cost saving in building one of these hypothetical junction control boats is worth it. (Although if they were truly critical I guess there's an argument for building deliberately super short ranged boats to eliminate any risk they'd get grabbed for some other mission)

That said I'm not sure there's a significant need for junction control couriers. The transit lanes are set up so you usually don't need to sent prior warning for transits. And mostly if you want to send a message to Astro Control on the other side you can just have a transiting freighter relay it -- no need to use a special courier.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:28 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:
Annachie wrote:Actually I was thinking specifically about junction control courier boats.

Don't need more than a day of canned air per crew. Same with food. Minimal berthing, none really.
Go out do your 12 hours and then doc at Junction Control while the other shift takes ship 2 out. Just a thought.


I can't imagine the cost saving in building one of these hypothetical junction control boats is worth it.


I don't think reducing Life-support/berthing space beyond the cramped Spartan conditions of a dispatch boat would save enough to significantly increase capability in any way, and building a ship model that duplicates most of a dispatch boats characteristics while reducing endurance is probably a non-starter.

Junction Couriers just hang around on standby most of the time; routine messages can be passed by normal traffic except in emergency situations where normal traffic is disrupted -- starting with jumping a Junction Courier to the head of the line. :lol:

Junction Couriers we've seen don't just hang around the junction once they transit, they either transit again back to their origin or to another terminus or they go running to Manticore or some other planet with an urgent message that can't wait on light-speed transmission from the Junction.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by SWM   » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:14 pm

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Annachie wrote:Actually I was thinking specifically about junction control courier boats.

Don't need more than a day of canned air per crew. Same with food. Minimal berthing, none really.
Go out do your 12 hours and then doc at Junction Control while the other shift takes ship 2 out. Just a thought.

David has stated quite clearly that a dispatch boat is the smallest vessel that can mount a hyper generator. Compared to the size necessary for the hyper generator, the impeller nodes, and the power generator, the amount of space taken up by life support is pretty minimal. So the smallest size that can go through a wormhole is the size of a small dispatch boat. You just can't make it any smaller.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:33 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:
I can't imagine the cost saving in building one of these hypothetical junction control boats is worth it.


I don't think reducing Life-support/berthing space beyond the cramped Spartan conditions of a dispatch boat would save enough to significantly increase capability in any way, and building a ship model that duplicates most of a dispatch boats characteristics while reducing endurance is probably a non-starter.

Junction Couriers just hang around on standby most of the time; routine messages can be passed by normal traffic except in emergency situations where normal traffic is disrupted -- starting with jumping a Junction Courier to the head of the line. :lol:

Junction Couriers we've seen don't just hang around the junction once they transit, they either transit again back to their origin or to another terminus or they go running to Manticore or some other planet with an urgent message that can't wait on light-speed transmission from the Junction.

And of course now Manticore doesn't need dispatch boats for that later, because the Hermes buoys though normal space will beat a dispatch boat over such a short distance. (The cycle times on the hyper generator alone is a good fraction of the 7 minutes it takes to Hermes Buoys to send the message ~7 lh from the junction to Maniticore)
[edit - lh not ly]

Now if you're talking a message from the junction to Gryphon, over in Manticore-B, then a dispatch boat has a better shot of beating the FTL message.
Last edited by Jonathan_S on Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by saber964   » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:53 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:quote="Weird Harold"]
Jonathan_S wrote:
I can't imagine the cost saving in building one of these hypothetical junction control boats is worth it.


I don't think reducing Life-support/berthing space beyond the cramped Spartan conditions of a dispatch boat would save enough to significantly increase capability in any way, and building a ship model that duplicates most of a dispatch boats characteristics while reducing endurance is probably a non-starter.

Junction Couriers just hang around on standby most of the time; routine messages can be passed by normal traffic except in emergency situations where normal traffic is disrupted -- starting with jumping a Junction Courier to the head of the line. :lol:

Junction Couriers we've seen don't just hang around the junction once they transit, they either transit again back to their origin or to another terminus or they go running to Manticore or some other planet with an urgent message that can't wait on light-speed transmission from the Junction.

And of course now Manticore doesn't need dispatch boats for that later, because the Hermes buoys though normal space will beat a dispatch boat over such a short distance. (The cycle times on the hyper generator alone is a good fraction of the 7 minutes it takes to Hermes Buoys to send the message ~7 ly from the junction to Maniticore)


Now if you're talking a message from the junction to Gryphon, over in Manticore-B, then a dispatch boat has a better shot of beating the FTL message.[/quote]

You probably mean Light Hours instead of Light Years. IIRC the MWJ is 412LM or just under 7LH. A message from the MWJ to Manticore would take about 6m 52s and a message to Gryphon from Manticore would take IIRC about 10h.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by Vince   » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:08 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:
Weird Harold wrote:
I don't think reducing Life-support/berthing space beyond the cramped Spartan conditions of a dispatch boat would save enough to significantly increase capability in any way, and building a ship model that duplicates most of a dispatch boats characteristics while reducing endurance is probably a non-starter.

Junction Couriers just hang around on standby most of the time; routine messages can be passed by normal traffic except in emergency situations where normal traffic is disrupted -- starting with jumping a Junction Courier to the head of the line. :lol:

Junction Couriers we've seen don't just hang around the junction once they transit, they either transit again back to their origin or to another terminus or they go running to Manticore or some other planet with an urgent message that can't wait on light-speed transmission from the Junction.

And of course now Manticore doesn't need dispatch boats for that later, because the Hermes buoys though normal space will beat a dispatch boat over such a short distance. (The cycle times on the hyper generator alone is a good fraction of the 7 minutes it takes to Hermes Buoys to send the message ~7 lh from the junction to Maniticore)
[edit - lh not ly]

Now if you're talking a message from the junction to Gryphon, over in Manticore-B, then a dispatch boat has a better shot of beating the FTL message.

Depends on the astrography of the Manticore Binary System at the time--David has stated that at some (distant) future time Manticore B will be closer to the Junction than Manticore A. He went on to say that Manticore B will at that time have its own resonance zone, making navigation in the Manticore system hazardous.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by stewart   » Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:47 pm

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Annachie wrote:Something that we will find out soon enough I suppose, but will Helen be sent to Mesa as Princess Helen of Torch?

Or, of more interest, will Paolo (and I'm sure that's spelt wrong) transfer to the Torch navy?


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Helen holds the title, albeit unused. To be effective she would also need to hold accredidation (sp) from Berry as a representative. That status might pose a conflict with her oath to Elizabeth as a Manty Naval Officer.

-- Stewart
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by stewart   » Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:50 pm

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cthia wrote:Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Did mankind foresee the aftermath of greatly exceeding safe acceleration before or after inertial compensator design?


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or the pummeled chicken and the smashed egg .....

-- Stewart
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by dreamrider   » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:48 am

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stewart wrote:
Annachie wrote:Something that we will find out soon enough I suppose, but will Helen be sent to Mesa as Princess Helen of Torch?

Or, of more interest, will Paolo (and I'm sure that's spelt wrong) transfer to the Torch navy?


---------------

Helen holds the title, albeit unused. To be effective she would also need to hold accredidation (sp) from Berry as a representative. That status might pose a conflict with her oath to Elizabeth as a Manty Naval Officer.

-- Stewart


I doubt that Helen or Lars has any official status on Torch. Think on how Berry got her position - by acclimation/election! For life, sure, and I'm pretty sure that the Torches would be willing to confirm her kids in the role, when she has some. But I don't see them cozying up to a 'not-directly-known' related non-citizen as heir.

For that matter, we don't even know if the position of monarch really is inherited - I don't think WEB has written that part of the rules yet, much less passed it through the Torch legislature.
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