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Analogy to Harchong

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Analogy to Harchong
Post by phillies   » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:45 pm

phillies
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An analogy to Harchong and to the Invincible (have to get that word in there) Omnipotent Host of God and Langhorn and All His Archangels comes to mind.

The analogy is the Chinese Army shortly after the turn of the last century, say between the War with Japan and the Boxer Rebellion or a bit later. A huge mix of weapons, a less than utterly honest bureaucracy, foreign experts not always trusted, bureaucrats and aristocrats though not of the western sort, etc. Even when they had modern weapons, Mausers, Krupp Artillery, they did not get a lot of use out of then effectively, or so my shallow sources say.

I would say more but for other reasons I have been looking unsuccessfully for detailed sources on the military in question. If I ahd the sources, I could say more. I can handle English or German-language sources. Suggestions on sources? There ought to be lots of interesting ideas there that the illustrious author has doubtless already drawn on.
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Re: Analogy to Harchong
Post by Dilandu   » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:25 am

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Well, if you could handle russian, there is some quite interesting data about "Opium conflicts" in 1840 and 1850th.

http://militera.lib.ru/h/butakov_tizengauz/index.html
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

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Re: Analogy to Harchong
Post by phillies   » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:41 pm

phillies
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Dilandu wrote:Well, if you could handle russian, there is some quite interesting data about "Opium conflicts" in 1840 and 1850th.

http://militera.lib.ru/h/butakov_tizengauz/index.html


Many thanks for the source! Russian is possible but marginal, but I am not sure that the period helps for the question I want to answer. I shall have to look and see.
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Re: Analogy to Harchong
Post by Kakai   » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:58 am

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Interesting.
I read up a bit on the boxer uprising (only Polish and English Wikipedia, so nothing interesting I'm afraid), but few things caught my attention.

"At the end of the XIX century, over 80% of Chinese were working as farmers, and way of life changed little since Tang dynasty" (that's Polish Wiki). Sounds like Harchong, if you replace "Tang" with "archangels".

"Country was badly ruled by overgrown bureaucratic machine under the thumb of Beijing government". Ditto.

"Prophets of different buddhist and taoist sects considered those natural disasters [flood and droughts] to be caused by foreigners, who disrupted the harmony of nature by railways and mines". Cut out buddhists and taoists and that seems like a very Safeholdian mindset (IIRC, Desnairans said something to that effect). We had - so far - very few POVs of Harchongese, I wonder what do they think.

And then there are Boxers themselves, who were secret society practicing combat and having their mystic secrets. (spoooiler warning) SSK, anybody?

Just my few cents.
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When in mortal danger, when beset by doubt,
Run in little circles, wave your arms and shout.

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