Seminaries CoC

Given the Churches centrality to everything in safehold life, what is the inner circle doing to produce priests that are not merely reforming the obvious abuses of the church but able to handle the truth once it comes out?

It seems to me that any chance of the EoC surviving the truth going out will depend largely on how the average parish priest takes it.

If you had 80% of the parish priests saying down with Shanwei! The inner circle is going to be in a tough spot.

My initial thoughts on that would be:

1. Foster theological debates about the writ and its authority in the seminary training.
2. Have the OWL and the inner circle quietly vet the priests sending the good but unsuitable from a revealing the truth view to quiet rural parishes, while the more mentally flexible priests to the key large inner city churches.
3.Get the top professors to be part of the inner circle
4.Have classes on science and faith with the Royal College staff cross posting into the seminaries.
5. Create a small new order to replace Schuler "order of Wyslyn?" with the priests having degrees in both theology and the sciences. This order will wrestle with how innovation and Godliness go together and be the source to create the intendants run seminars in Churches regarding innovation and the writ.

Bottom line thousands of young critically thinking priests being churned out of the seminaries over the next 10-15 yrs and the retiring of older intransigent ones in the years will be critical in the "behind the scenes" developments in the books.

Alistair wrote:Given the Churches centrality to everything in safehold life, what is the inner circle doing to produce priests that are not merely reforming the obvious abuses of the church but able to handle the truth once it comes out?

It seems to me that any chance of the EoC surviving the truth going out will depend largely on how the average parish priest takes it.

If you had 80% of the parish priests saying down with Shanwei! The inner circle is going to be in a tough spot.

My initial thoughts on that would be:

1. Foster theological debates about the writ and its authority in the seminary training.
2. Have the OWL and the inner circle quietly vet the priests sending the good but unsuitable from a revealing the truth view to quiet rural parishes, while the more mentally flexible priests to the key large inner city churches.
3.Get the top professors to be part of the inner circle
4.Have classes on science and faith with the Royal College staff cross posting into the seminaries.
5. Create a small new order to replace Schuler "order of Wyslyn?" with the priests having degrees in both theology and the sciences. This order will wrestle with how innovation and Godliness go together and be the source to create the intendants run seminars in Churches regarding innovation and the writ.

Bottom line thousands of young critically thinking priests being churned out of the seminaries over the next 10-15 yrs and the retiring of older intransigent ones in the years will be critical in the "behind the scenes" developments in the books.

I think you are right, at least partly. If I were organizing how to get the truth out once the decision is made to proclaim it, I would disconnect it and distant it from governmental sanction as far as possible. Let someone like the Brethren of St. Zherneau or perhaps your Order of Wylsyn do the proclaim it and then very discreetly make sure the resourses were available for them to get their message spread as widely as possible.

Don

"Order of Wylsynn"???

Wow, I knew the Wylsynns were generally considered good people, but I hadn't realized that an entire religious order had already been founded based on their name!

I think this is a really terrible idea.

You know why? Because the Church - even the Church of Charis - is excessively, unhealthily important in the wider culture. It is also thoroughly rotten and built upon a deliberate manipulative lie.
The Inner Circle should be planning for a day when the Church collapses, not finding a clever way to prop it up.

Incognitia wrote:I think this is a really terrible idea.

You know why? Because the Church - even the Church of Charis - is excessively, unhealthily important in the wider culture. It is also thoroughly rotten and built upon a deliberate manipulative lie.
The Inner Circle should be planning for a day when the Church collapses, not finding a clever way to prop it up.

It collapsing eventually doesn't matter if the revelation of the truth prompts a backlash that holds it together for a couple more centuries. I think the suggestions above are ideas to soften the blow that the truth would give. Michael has already been doing this to an extent with his focus on God rather than the Archangels. Given his charisma, it seems like priests in Charis already tend to focus more on a personal relationship with God than the hierarchy of the CoGA.

Incognitia wrote:I think this is a really terrible idea.

You know why? Because the Church - even the Church of Charis - is excessively, unhealthily important in the wider culture. It is also thoroughly rotten and built upon a deliberate manipulative lie.
The Inner Circle should be planning for a day when the Church collapses, not finding a clever way to prop it up.

I disagree. Every society has structures and activities its citizens engage in. Religion is simply one of them. At its core religion seeks to define a purpose to existence. That core objective will come in handy when it comes time dealing with the Gbaba.

In the end there is nothing unhealthy about trying to ensure that one is living one's life in accordance to the purpose one believes one has.

Incognitia wrote:I think this is a really terrible idea.

You know why? Because the Church - even the Church of Charis - is excessively, unhealthily important in the wider culture. It is also thoroughly rotten and built upon a deliberate manipulative lie.
The Inner Circle should be planning for a day when the Church collapses, not finding a clever way to prop it up.

Maikel Stayner is already moving the Church of Charis away from the Arch-Angels etc by emphasising each persons individual relationship with God and their individual responsibility to act. Even Merlin Athrawes represents him self as the last "living" Christian (not to mention Jew, Muslim, Buddhist etc).

Nobody is suggesting that God does not exist, only that the Arch-Angels are lies.

Will there be a backlash when the truth comes out? oh you betcha.

Alistair wrote:Given the Churches centrality to everything in safehold life, what is the inner circle doing to produce priests that are not merely reforming the obvious abuses of the church but able to handle the truth once it comes out?

It seems to me that any chance of the EoC surviving the truth going out will depend largely on how the average parish priest takes it.

If you had 80% of the parish priests saying down with Shanwei! The inner circle is going to be in a tough spot.

My initial thoughts on that would be:

1. Foster theological debates about the writ and its authority in the seminary training.
2. Have the OWL and the inner circle quietly vet the priests sending the good but unsuitable from a revealing the truth view to quiet rural parishes, while the more mentally flexible priests to the key large inner city churches.
3.Get the top professors to be part of the inner circle
4.Have classes on science and faith with the Royal College staff cross posting into the seminaries.
5. Create a small new order to replace Schuler "order of Wyslyn?" with the priests having degrees in both theology and the sciences. This order will wrestle with how innovation and Godliness go together and be the source to create the intendants run seminars in Churches regarding innovation and the writ.

Bottom line thousands of young critically thinking priests being churned out of the seminaries over the next 10-15 yrs and the retiring of older intransigent ones in the years will be critical in the "behind the scenes" developments in the books.

I agree. Right now religion is the glue that holds civilization together. The CoC is working to change that, but the work is really just starting. If the truth came out now I think there would be a religious war and a purge that would dwarf the present war, followed by a long dark age. Staynair is trying to create a church that can survive the truth and still provide the glue to keep society intact (more or less). If he fails, then it might be another millennium before Merlin and Nimue can try again to reawaken humanity.

I suggest a complementary movement: Expand the Royal College into an Imperial University system, with 'campuses' at least in every capitol of the Empire. A key part of the curriculum would be the same sort of science and faith discussions you suggest for the CoC. It could sponsor public lectures and other outreach to make the new innovations less fearsome to the average person. It would also be critical in letting Charis tap the potential of their people, which is vital for the future prosperity of the Empire.

IMO, Irys and Hektor would be the natural choice to drive the new education system.

jms

jmseeley wrote:
I agree. Right now religion is the glue that holds civilization together. The CoC is working to change that, but the work is really just starting. If the truth came out now I think there would be a religious war and a purge that would dwarf the present war, followed by a long dark age. Staynair is trying to create a church that can survive the truth and still provide the glue to keep society intact (more or less). If he fails, then it might be another millennium before Merlin and Nimue can try again to reawaken humanity.

I suggest a complementary movement: Expand the Royal College into an Imperial University system, with 'campuses' at least in every capitol of the Empire. A key part of the curriculum would be the same sort of science and faith discussions you suggest for the CoC. It could sponsor public lectures and other outreach to make the new innovations less fearsome to the average person. It would also be critical in letting Charis tap the potential of their people, which is vital for the future prosperity of the Empire.

IMO, Irys and Hektor would be the natural choice to drive the new education system.

jms

Well, we have the return of the Archangels as well as "the big reveal", which are already announced to happen. From a storytelling perspective, RFC might not be interested in describing a multi-decade reeducation effort. Because, essentially, the inner circle is not planning on loosening the truth on Safehold in the lifetimes of Cayleb. I figure RFC planted these hints for accelerating a process which would be unsuitable to the kind of story he wants to tell.
So, while I'm not an opponent to some reeducation effort, I don't think we're going to see it...

Anwi is right. The Return will pretty much force a confrontation with the Truth. Safehold has to deal with it. If anyone thinks that the CoGA won't be part of the solution is wrong.

The Return will lead to Merlin and the Sleeper(s) confronting the purpose of Operation Ark. I doubt that confrontation will be private. Assuming this confrontation takes place in The Temple, most of the CoGA leadership will be witness to it. How those leaders react to such an exchange will be very important to how the story progresses.