EoC Coastal Defense and terror threats (Spoilers)

SYED wrote:They have some ability to sail, but not necessarily able to apply it in combat.
I wonder if charis will make q ships in great number, so the raider suffer going after the merchant ships.

Hi Syed,

From snippet 9 we learned that most of the merchis are armed. That's not quite in q ship range. But it's probably enough to make the great adventure expensive for commerce raiders.

Don

Hi,

some answers/thoughts below

lyonheart wrote:Hi Anwi,
This has potential, in that somebody might try to sabotage Delthak by sending saboteurs over the mountains from the Tranjyr Passage etc.

Yes, that's one possibility. Even if you're only Setting the Scene of the single Person Saboteurs that actually could attack Delthak.
But consider the phsychological impact of a (terror) campaign of marauding groups of CoGA fanatics raiding villages, burnings crops, etc. They don't even have to openly attack major cities to be more than a nuisance. Charisian population will demand swift action. And that needs not necessarily good but a good number of troops. Which are somewhere else. Logically, the boys have to be brought back - and stay, since such wanton destruction may not happen again.
Furthermore, CoGA might have "volunteers" which have at least some knowledge of these areas. And more importantly, the CoGA (well, probably not Clyntahn, but others) would expect to find loyalists for local support.)

lyonheart wrote:But the limits of the schooners for carrying that many extra men would eliminate any prize crews or commerce raiding for the duration of the transport time, the required diversion effectively removes them from Rock Point's primary concern.

(snip)
Even then I think the window for such possibilities to be very limited, a matter of month's at most, before coastal patrols etc eliminate the threat.

L

I agree, privateering ships used for that purpose are lost for naval raiding. However, as Charisian merchantmen sailors are fighting for their lives (literally), these raids will be full-fledged fights probably with boarding actions. Thus, Desnarian losses even while taking a prize might be higher than expected.
This should somewhat curb the effectiveness of raiders even without better coverage from the ICN - and the upcoming actions against Desnarian harbours and shipyards.

As to coastal defense: The length of these coastlines vs. the low population numbers was what got me wondering in the first place. With the shallow draft raiding vessels, you should be able to reach the coast and land "troops" pretty much everywhere you want. And I can't see the ICN covering all that coastline without an effective cloning programme . Then, with no eyes on land to see anything, CoGA "troops" could cover quite some ground from their landing site. Horses would, of course, be acquired eventually from Charisian farmers ...

anwi wrote:Hi,

some answers/thoughts below

lyonheart wrote:Hi Anwi,
This has potential, in that somebody might try to sabotage Delthak by sending saboteurs over the mountains from the Tranjyr Passage etc.

Yes, that's one possibility. Even if you're only Setting the Scene of the single Person Saboteurs that actually could attack Delthak.
But consider the phsychological impact of a (terror) campaign of marauding groups of CoGA fanatics raiding villages, burnings crops, etc. They don't even have to openly attack major cities to be more than a nuisance. Charisian population will demand swift action. And that needs not necessarily good but a good number of troops. Which are somewhere else. Logically, the boys have to be brought back - and stay, since such wanton destruction may not happen again.
Furthermore, CoGA might have "volunteers" which have at least some knowledge of these areas. And more importantly, the CoGA (well, probably not Clyntahn, but others) would expect to find loyalists for local support.)

lyonheart wrote:But the limits of the schooners for carrying that many extra men would eliminate any prize crews or commerce raiding for the duration of the transport time, the required diversion effectively removes them from Rock Point's primary concern.

(snip)
Even then I think the window for such possibilities to be very limited, a matter of month's at most, before coastal patrols etc eliminate the threat.

L

I agree, privateering ships used for that purpose are lost for naval raiding. However, as Charisian merchantmen sailors are fighting for their lives (literally), these raids will be full-fledged fights probably with boarding actions. Thus, Desnarian losses even while taking a prize might be higher than expected.
This should somewhat curb the effectiveness of raiders even without better coverage from the ICN - and the upcoming actions against Desnarian harbours and shipyards.

As to coastal defense: The length of these coastlines vs. the low population numbers was what got me wondering in the first place. With the shallow draft raiding vessels, you should be able to reach the coast and land "troops" pretty much everywhere you want. And I can't see the ICN covering all that coastline without an effective cloning programme . Then, with no eyes on land to see anything, CoGA "troops" could cover quite some ground from their landing site. Horses would, of course, be acquired eventually from Charisian farmers ...

Assuming the CoGA could get several groups of raiders to Charis (why would they ignore Chrisholme or Corisande or Emerald Island too?), the fighting there would be very very ugly. Since the ones most likely to be sent on such a mission would be fanatics and treat the local population very badly. I can see a LOT of burning and looting and impromptu Punishments being levied against the locals as long as the raiders survive. They'd have to move fast though to stave off being caught and killed. Either way though, it would be very ugly for awhile. The fighting in the Republic brought to the Empire.

Zakharra wrote:
Assuming the CoGA could get several groups of raiders to Charis (why would they ignore Chrisholme or Corisande or Emerald Island too?), the fighting there would be very very ugly. Since the ones most likely to be sent on such a mission would be fanatics and treat the local population very badly. I can see a LOT of burning and looting and impromptu Punishments being levied against the locals as long as the raiders survive. They'd have to move fast though to stave off being caught and killed. Either way though, it would be very ugly for awhile. The fighting in the Republic brought to the Empire.

Actually, it wouldn't be more then nuisance. There is simply no way to put something more than very small raiding group, and in unfamiliar country they would be next thing to helpless. Yes, they would be able to inflict some damage - and so? there is no radio, or TV in Charis. The news that "some village somewhere in Urhyupeensk was burned by the invading Deshnarian" simply could not travel fast enought, and any rumors would be easly localized.

Zakharra wrote:
Assuming the CoGA could get several groups of raiders to Charis (why would they ignore Chrisholme or Corisande or Emerald Island too?), the fighting there would be very very ugly. Since the ones most likely to be sent on such a mission would be fanatics and treat the local population very badly. (snip)

As to why only Charis: I'd used Charis as the most obvious example as it has the worst proportion of coastline to area and is probably the least (on average) populated region of the EoC (if my recollection and rule of thumb estimation is not too far off). Moreover, it's more convenient for Desnairian raiders. Plus, it would be a prime target for a terror campaign as I understand the Inquisition's thinking. The Desnairians might also target Tarot, BTW, but there the population to area ratio might be less favorable.
For Dohlaran or Harchongian vessels, the other side of the EoC (Chisholm, Zebediah, Corisande) might be more interesting. Actually, in terms of local support, they might be more interesting targets than Charis proper.
Regarding the description of the fighting: Yes, that'd be the objective of such expeditions for the "volunteers": wreck as much havoc as possible before you're caught.

As an aside: when Guarnak was shelled, I wondered how prone to fire Safeholdian cities might be. Rome, e.g., burned several times. Now, Charis is in a tropical climate, so I'd expect more wood, paper, and bambus than stone and concrete. If you reach the outskirts of a city and the wind blows from the right direction, might be you can light a "bonfire" .

anwi wrote:

Zakharra wrote:
Assuming the CoGA could get several groups of raiders to Charis (why would they ignore Chrisholme or Corisande or Emerald Island too?), the fighting there would be very very ugly. Since the ones most likely to be sent on such a mission would be fanatics and treat the local population very badly. (snip)

As to why only Charis: I'd used Charis as the most obvious example as it has the worst proportion of coastline to area and is probably the least (on average) populated region of the EoC (if my recollection and rule of thumb estimation is not too far off). Moreover, it's more convenient for Desnairian raiders. Plus, it would be a prime target for a terror campaign as I understand the Inquisition's thinking. The Desnairians might also target Tarot, BTW, but there the population to area ratio might be less favorable.
For Dohlaran or Harchongian vessels, the other side of the EoC (Chisholm, Zebediah, Corisande) might be more interesting. Actually, in terms of local support, they might be more interesting targets than Charis proper.
Regarding the description of the fighting: Yes, that'd be the objective of such expeditions for the "volunteers": wreck as much havoc as possible before you're caught.

As an aside: when Guarnak was shelled, I wondered how prone to fire Safeholdian cities might be. Rome, e.g., burned several times. Now, Charis is in a tropical climate, so I'd expect more wood, paper, and bambus than stone and concrete. If you reach the outskirts of a city and the wind blows from the right direction, might be you can light a "bonfire" .

I seem to remember in OAR Merlin saw that Tellesburg was brick built - wood being kept fro better purposes

so maybe not quite so flamable

Dilandu wrote:

Zakharra wrote:
Assuming the CoGA could get several groups of raiders to Charis (why would they ignore Chrisholme or Corisande or Emerald Island too?), the fighting there would be very very ugly. Since the ones most likely to be sent on such a mission would be fanatics and treat the local population very badly. I can see a LOT of burning and looting and impromptu Punishments being levied against the locals as long as the raiders survive. They'd have to move fast though to stave off being caught and killed. Either way though, it would be very ugly for awhile. The fighting in the Republic brought to the Empire.

Actually, it wouldn't be more then nuisance. There is simply no way to put something more than very small raiding group, and in unfamiliar country they would be next thing to helpless. Yes, they would be able to inflict some damage - and so? there is no radio, or TV in Charis. The news that "some village somewhere in Urhyupeensk was burned by the invading Deshnarian" simply could not travel fast enought, and any rumors would be easly localized.

Rumors can travel fast. Much faster than you can think even in a pre-electronic media age. So word would get out soon enough and if the raiders keep moving, they could do a lot of damage to the local areas before being caught and destroyed.

As for the numbers, if they can get several shiploads it wouldn't take many men, especially if they have the advantage of surprise in the attacks. Also, if it's a one way trip for the raiders, they could pack in several hundred men or so into a medium sized ship, several ships that make it could land 500+ raiders and in the short time they are active, they could terrorize a LOT of people. Burning houses, killing, burning farms, hay, food warehouses/barns.. Slip a few into a seaport and set fire to the shipyard. Set some forest fires or grassfires. Burn the countryside. There's a lot of ways raiders could make life difficult in the Charis empire.

Admittedly this would turn more of the population against them, but since when has the Inquisition ever concerned itself with what the common person thinks? It's more likely to tell the common person what and how they should think instead.

If stories about raiders started reaching the ears of someone in the inner circle, I am sure that they could find creative ways to justify putting troops in position to intercept without giving away how they REALLY know.

My own thought would be that the damage would probably be pretty minor, especially after the first time or two it was tried.

Don

n7axw wrote:If stories about raiders started reaching the ears of someone in the inner circle, I am sure that they could find creative ways to justify putting troops in position to intercept without giving away how they REALLY know.

My own thought would be that the damage would probably be pretty minor, especially after the first time or two it was tried.

Don

Or it could wind up like the Japanese occupation of parts of Northern Australia - the Australian government found out about it after the war was over from the Japanese files, they were there for 6 months and ran into nobody then left (and the US built an airbase ten miles away a couple of months later).

AirTech wrote:

n7axw wrote:If stories about raiders started reaching the ears of someone in the inner circle, I am sure that they could find creative ways to justify putting troops in position to intercept without giving away how they REALLY know.

My own thought would be that the damage would probably be pretty minor, especially after the first time or two it was tried.

Don

Or it could wind up like the Japanese occupation of parts of Northern Australia - the Australian government found out about it after the war was over from the Japanese files, they were there for 6 months and ran into nobody then left (and the US built an airbase ten miles away a couple of months later).

That's funny... I bet they got bored.

Seems a little less likely with the snarcs in orbit over Old Charis.

Don