Thinking about defensive weapons systems

Duckk wrote:The energy budget for a point defense laser cluster is higher than that of a microfusion plant of a Ghost Rider drone.

Iirc, doesn't a PDLC mass more than a recon drone too?

SWM wrote:While I had thought Duckk was right, the graser torpedoes does pose a question. How did they power a graser on something presumably smaller than a drone?

The answer might simply be that powering a single-use weapon like the graser is possible, but powering a laser cluster intended to fire repeatedly is too much. A PDLC that can only fire a handful of shots is not terribly useful.

You're forgetting that a Graser torp is larger than a missile pod - they had to be carried externally by Sharks in the OB attack (only 2 per Shark iirc). It is probably closer to a classic LAC in size than anything else, which is 10-40x the size of a drone.

IIRC, a CA scale graser is 3000 tons, which is roughly the mass of a missile pod. It's VERY vague just how big the whole torpedo is, but 10-30KT doesn't seem unreasonable.

One thing I've wondered about is grafting a basic missile drive and guidance package onto a anti-missile launch basket. I don't see them getting many kills at extreme range but after their use became known, an enemy would need to decide between giving up any free kills or using up pen-aids.

Theemile wrote:

SWM wrote:While I had thought Duckk was right, the graser torpedoes does pose a question. How did they power a graser on something presumably smaller than a drone?

The answer might simply be that powering a single-use weapon like the graser is possible, but powering a laser cluster intended to fire repeatedly is too much. A PDLC that can only fire a handful of shots is not terribly useful.

You're forgetting that a Graser torp is larger than a missile pod - they had to be carried externally by Sharks in the OB attack (only 2 per Shark iirc). It is probably closer to a classic LAC in size than anything else, which is 10-40x the size of a drone.

I don't recall any evidence that they are that big. Yes, they had to be carried externally, but the Sharks couldn't have carried capital missiles internally either. The Detweilers carry the graser torpedoes internally. I know graser missiles are bigger than capital missiles, but bigger than a pod? Do you have any evidence that they are bigger than a pod?

SWM wrote:Do you have any evidence that they are bigger than a pod?

The basic CA graser that they were kind of based off of (evolved from anyhow) was said by David to be 3000 tons by itself. Without a power supply or TA system.

SWM wrote:I don't recall any evidence that they are that big. Yes, they had to be carried externally, but the Sharks couldn't have carried capital missiles internally either. The Detweilers carry the graser torpedoes internally. I know graser missiles are bigger than capital missiles, but bigger than a pod? Do you have any evidence that they are bigger than a pod?

Why do you think that the Sharks could not have carried capital class missiles internally? I don't think there is textev for that. They DID certainly carry a number of oversized missile PODS loaded with Cataphract C, each accompanied by a bulldozer lead pod of the same size, internally. Recall that the Sharks are described as "battleship-sized".

dreamrider wrote:

SWM wrote:I don't recall any evidence that they are that big. Yes, they had to be carried externally, but the Sharks couldn't have carried capital missiles internally either. The Detweilers carry the graser torpedoes internally. I know graser missiles are bigger than capital missiles, but bigger than a pod? Do you have any evidence that they are bigger than a pod?

Why do you think that the Sharks could not have carried capital class missiles internally? I don't think there is textev for that. They DID certainly carry a number of oversized missile PODS loaded with Cataphract C, each accompanied by a bulldozer lead pod of the same size, internally. Recall that the Sharks are described as "battleship-sized".

That and they were too large for the Shark's pod bay and only 2 were able to be carried by each 5-6Mton Shark. Yes, there is nothing definitive on size, but when you take the size of the grazer (~3 Ktons for a normal CA graser) powersupply and drive, along with the rest of how it was delivered, the only conclusion is a weapon that masses on the low end in the 5-8Kton range.

Normal Drones, which mass 250-1000 tons, are droped from boatbays, so anything that must be carried externally has to greatly out mass drones

1.75 Mton Aggies and Couvousier 2s carry >300 pods, so even a badly designed 1st gen podbay in a 5 Mton design has to have the abiltity to carry 2-300 pods. - as long as it fit through the hatch, one would think that quite a few "Pod Massed" graser torps could be carried there in lieu of the not so stealthy missile pods - but they didn't fit.

All the points seem to indicate a massive weapon - in reality a stealthy, automonous single shot LAC.

???

There were a more than 2 per Shark. Eighteen torpedoes were assigned to just the Manticore attack, and it would not be unreasonable to assume that that many were assigned to Sphinx as well (Weyland, being smaller, may have been allocated fewer).

Duckk wrote:???

There were a more than 2 per Shark. Eighteen torpedoes were assigned to just the Manticore attack, and it would not be unreasonable to assume that that many were assigned to Sphinx as well (Weyland, being smaller, may have been allocated fewer).

Weren't there 15 Sharks used for the entire "A" attack? -@ 2 Graser Torps each that comes out to 30 Torps, or 12 thrown at Vulcan - 3 GTs each is 45 total - which would mean 27 GTs got thrown at the smaller Vulcan station

Either way, only 2-3 GTs were on each Shark. (While I will admit, 3 makes more sense for the "Triple Skegg" design)