Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

Official HFQ Snippet #10

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Official HFQ Snippet #10
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:34 am

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4478
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

PeterZ wrote:Lake City is between East Wing Lake and West Wing Lake using the map you referenced. I believe it might also be referred to as Lake View in the books.


Oh I didn't have any trouble finding Lake City, I just think it's "a lake too far" -- to butcher a good phrase/title. I'm gping to have to re-read with an eye to troops strengths and locations, but pushing beyond Guarnak without circling back to open the passes for reinforcement come springtime, BGV doesn't have the necessary troop strength to cover his flanks if he pushes straight on to Lake City.

PeterZ wrote:So, if BGV holds Lake City/Lake View, he has primarily ice lizards come summer and very few dragons. I doubt ice lizards would do well carrying freight in summer.


That's another reason for opening the passes for reinforcements come springtime; those forces will be equipped -- with Dragons (or Steam Tractors) -- for summer campaigning.

A lot will depend on initial successes and the resulting attrition. Once the passes are open and the blocking forces destroyed or dispersed (to the mercy of Gen. Winter,) The next strategic goal should be securing the canal to the North-east through the Ohlarn Gap, to Fairkyn and the Ice-ash River.

Only when the Guarnak-Ice Ash canal is secured (securing the river can wait for summer-troops or amphibious assault from Hsing Wu's passage) should BGV extend his perimeter north-west to Five Forks and the New Northland canal.

By the time he's ready for that move, reinforcements from Glacierheart should be in position to cover his left (SE) flank, and the RSA should be able to support his right flank.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
Top
Re: Official HFQ Snippet #10
Post by USMA74   » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:00 pm

USMA74
Commander

Posts: 238
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:22 am
Location: Leavenworth, KS, USA

The wikipedia article on the M1 carbine cites several references for the Cartridge, Caliber .30, Carbine, Ball, M1 (7.62X33) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine failing to penetrate the quilted cotton garments worn by Chinese soldiers during the Korean War. The official US Army Center of Military History records are silent on the subject.
Top
Re: Official HFQ Snippet #10
Post by laz   » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:12 pm

laz
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:25 am

Everyone seems to be forgetting the politics of what Green Valley is gonna do. and in LAMA he is quite clear on where he is going. of course plans always change when you start DOING.

“But most of all, I want Wyrshym right where he is at Saiknyr and Guarnak while we swing through the Northland Gap and slam the door shut behind him. He’s probably smart enough to pull back if he realizes what’s coming, but he may not be the one who gets to make the decision, and everything we’ve seen suggests that Zhaspahr Clyntahn’s as fond of “hold to the last man” orders as Adolf Hitler ever was. Who knows? We may just be able to engineer our very own Stalingrad, and that would suit me just fine.”

Excerpt From: David Weber. “Like a Mighty Army.” iBooks. https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/like-a ... 6070?mt=11
Top
Re: Official HFQ Snippet #10
Post by Captain Igloo   » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:54 pm

Captain Igloo
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:02 pm

laz wrote:Everyone seems to be forgetting the politics of what Green Valley is gonna do. and in LAMA he is quite clear on where he is going. of course plans always change when you start DOING.

“But most of all, I want Wyrshym right where he is at Saiknyr and Guarnak while we swing through the Northland Gap and slam the door shut behind him. He’s probably smart enough to pull back if he realizes what’s coming, but he may not be the one who gets to make the decision, and everything we’ve seen suggests that Zhaspahr Clyntahn’s as fond of “hold to the last man” orders as Adolf Hitler ever was. Who knows? We may just be able to engineer our very own Stalingrad, and that would suit me just fine.”

Excerpt From: David Weber. “Like a Mighty Army.” iBooks. https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/like-a ... 6070?mt=11


Dont forget "Neither side’s going to be able to mount a campaign before next summer" or "And for the immediate future, I don’t see any way the heretics can press the attack against us any more than we can press the attack against them." Well, i think, Duchairn will regret his words :lol:
Top
Re: Official HFQ Snippet #10
Post by Tonto Silerheels   » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:00 pm

Tonto Silerheels
Captain of the List

Posts: 454
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:01 pm

laz wrote:

Everyone seems to be forgetting the politics of what Green Valley is gonna do. and in LAMA he is quite clear on where he is going. of course plans always change when you start DOING.

Yeah, Charis's strategy appears to be to destroy armies rather than regain land. Eastshare did an excellent job of that over in Westmarch, and a superior one in South March. So, it would make sense for Baron Green Valley to try that in Northland, New Northland, and Mountaincross.

I seem to recall that Wyrsham threw a couple of brigades at Northland, after hearing that Green Valley was moving in Midhold, hoping to occupy Allyntyn. We saw that Baron Green Valley got there first, so Wyrsham's brigades are going to be in the Northland Gap or St. Zhana, and they've been preparing with new tactics. They've also had a few five-days to prepare positions. If Baron Green Valley can defeat them in the Northland Gap, then St. Zhana and Ohlarn should fall pretty rapidly (Fairkyn being a mere bagatelle having no road and broken canals). Wyrsham's only hope is to throw men at the Ohlarn Gap. On the map it appears wide enough that Baron Green Valley can flank him, forcing Wyrsham to fall back on Guarnak.

Wyrsham has the choice of trying to hold Guarnak, whereupon he gives Baron Green Valley his Stalingrad, or retreating whereupon he grants Siddarmark good communications up the Sylman canal.

~Tonto
Top
Re: Official HFQ Snippet #10
Post by Theemile   » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:19 pm

Theemile
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5241
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:50 pm
Location: All over the Place - Now Serving Dublin, OH

USMA74 wrote:The wikipedia article on the M1 carbine cites several references for the Cartridge, Caliber .30, Carbine, Ball, M1 (7.62X33) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine failing to penetrate the quilted cotton garments worn by Chinese soldiers during the Korean War. The official US Army Center of Military History records are silent on the subject.


If memory serves, 1) the marines who reported that were using m-1 carbines - firing .30 combine rounds (an elongated pistol round), not M-1 Gerand rifles which fired .308 caliber bottlenecked rifle rounds - totally different bullets. 2) The Chinese Uniforms in questions were half soaked and the outer layers frozen with frost forming on the surface - It wasn't just the quilting that stopped the marine firepower, but the ice as well.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
Top
Re: Official HFQ Snippet #10
Post by tootall   » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:42 pm

tootall
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:23 am

Tonto Silerheels wrote:

Everyone seems to be forgetting the politics of what Green Valley is gonna do. and in LAMA he is quite clear on where he is going. of course plans always change when you start DOING.

Yeah, Charis's strategy appears to be to destroy armies rather than regain land. I seem to recall that Wyrsham threw a couple of brigades at Northland, after hearing that Green Valley was moving in Midhold,

Wyrsham's brigades are going to be in the Northland Gap or St. Zhana, and they've been preparing with new tactics. They've also had a few five-days to prepare positions.
( Note the snip indicates that there are no church patrols- I'm assuming complete suprise)
Wyrsham has the choice of trying to hold Guarnak, or retreating whereupon he grants Siddarmark good communications up the Sylman canal.

I would agree -if it wasn't winter.

Wyrsham doesn't know they are coming and I don't think he'll get word until it's too late to get any of his winter quartered troops moved. So when I read the snip- I assumed- BGV would be at the gates of Guarnak before Wyrsham had a chance to reinforce or fortify the place. And if that happened, the army in the Gap would be too far away and too ill-supplied to march to the rescue. It does depend on the commo links between the northland Gap--St Zhana --Fairkyn-- Ohlarhn--Guarnak.
The snip also indicated that many semaphore towers have been destroyed. Has the AoG fixed theirs?

In some ways we are all in BGV's shoes- we know the plan- we just have to wait a couple of weeks to see if it's going to work out. ;)
Top
Re: Official HFQ Snippet #10
Post by Tonto Silerheels   » Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:26 pm

Tonto Silerheels
Captain of the List

Posts: 454
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:01 pm

tootall wrote:

Wyrsham doesn't know they are coming and I don't think he'll get word until it's too late to get any of his winter quartered troops moved.

I would have agreed except that Wyrsham got word Baron Green Valley was moving in Midhold before Green Valley got to Alyntyn, and maybe before he got to that city on the North of Grayback Lake (perhaps Charlztown). By the beginning of HFQ Wyrsham has to know Green Valley is in Alyntyn, and it's reasonable to conclude that once Green Valley reaches the Northland Gap Wyrsham's going to learn about that pretty quickly. The only way I can escape that conclusion is to assume that Wyrsham learned about Midhold via wyvern, and the last of the wyverns were captured.

I try to put myself in Wyrsham's shoes. I learn that Baron Green Valley is battling my brigades in the Northland Gap in winter. I can assume he's not going to make any progress, that my men can stop him, but that's not a safe assumption. Especially considering that I didn't even believe he could campaign in winter. I've already been surprised once. Furthermore, if Green Valley is campaigning in winter then I know he thinks he can defeat my forces.

The question is how do I respond. Green Valley might attempt to go through the gap between the Ice Ash Mountains and the Kalgarans. If he does, though, then he has no roads to supply his men. More likely is the route I mentioned. My response, then, would be to rush my men either into Ohlarn or into the Ohlarn Gap.

One assumption I've been making is that most of Wyrsham's forces are in Guarnak proper. I'm assuming that he only has a blocking force in the Sylmahn Gap. That way he can rotate men into and out of the gap and give them a chance to recuperate in Guarnak.

~Tonto
Top
Re: Official HFQ Snippet #10
Post by ericth   » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:25 pm

ericth
Commander

Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:35 pm
Location: USA

BGV wrote:“But most of all, I want Wyrshym right where he is at Saiknyr and Guarnak while we swing through the Northland Gap and slam the door shut behind him. He’s probably smart enough to pull back if he realizes what’s coming, but he may not be the one who gets to make the decision, and everything we’ve seen suggests that Zhaspahr Clyntahn’s as fond of “hold to the last man” orders as Adolf Hitler ever was. Who knows? We may just be able to engineer our very own Stalingrad, and that would suit me just fine.”


BGV wrote:'if we're really lucky and the weather holds' we might actually reach Guarnak before the spring thaw turns everything to mud on us'



We have two quotes from BGV that appear to be at odds. He talks about reaching Guarnak and also about slamming the door shut behind Wyrshym. One way to harmonize that would be to slam the door shut in the vicinity of of Guarnak but not necessarily reducing the city itself. Another would be that plans change. I dont think BGV has the troops to split his force so they are likely to remain concentrated.

In this sort of weather, even depriving the AoG of proper shelter can defeat them. The AoG forces sent up to the northland gap are likely to be those who do have the limited supply of winter gear, although from the description of the ICA gear it's implied that they are a few cuts above when it comes to fighting in the cold. I suspect that the AoG winter gear is adequate for garrison life, but that still means they are heavily dependent upon shelter. That also means they cannot spend extensive time away from garrison during this sort of cold and that their shelters, or at least their ability to keep out the cold, are highly vulnerable to artillery bombardment once the ICA arrives.

In the current weather conditions, I expect the AoG to have minimal mobility and to be only able to fight outside for brief periods of time. Their ability to sustain an offensive is probably minimal. This allows BGV to pick his fights and reduce the AoG forces without needing to assault them directly. Once their shelters are compromised the AoG can surrender, retreat or banzai-charge.

With respect to where the fighting takes place, I'd like to see what the barflies think on where would be the best places to prepare for the Mighty Host of God and the Archangels. That's assuming that facing the Host will be primarily defensive, at least at first. That's actually one reason I dont think "slam the back door shut" means Cat Lizard Lake. It's a very long supply line and closer to the Might Host.
Top
Re: Official HFQ Snippet #10
Post by tootall   » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:29 pm

tootall
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:23 am

[quote="Tonto Silerheels"]tootall wrote:

Wyrsham doesn't know they are coming and I don't think he'll get word until it's too late to get any of his winter quartered troops moved.

I would have agreed except that Wyrsham got word Baron Green Valley was moving in Midhold before Green Valley got to Alyntyn, and maybe before he got to that city on the North of Grayback Lake (perhaps Charlztown). By the beginning of HFQ Wyrsham has to know Green Valley is in Alyntyn, and it's reasonable to conclude that once Green Valley reaches the Northland Gap Wyrsham's going to learn about that pretty quickly.

You're right

One assumption I've been making is that most of Wyrsham's forces are in Guarnak proper. I'm assuming that he only has a blocking force in the Sylmahn Gap. That way he can rotate men into and out of the gap and give them a chance to recuperate in Guarnak.

And I assumed that The Grand Inquisitor wouldn't let him abandon the gap AT ALL, and that he has a token force -and recovering wounded- in Guarnak. So if he does have the bulk of his forces in Guarnak- he can react- retreat etc. Or he could defend from prepared fully manned positions- (That'd be grim for our side)

Most interesting how we read these books with slightly different assumptions.

And what exactly is the distance from the Gap to Guarnak?
Top

Return to Safehold