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EoC Coastal Defense and terror threats (Spoilers)

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Re: EoC Coastal Defense and terror threats (Spoilers)
Post by InvisibleBison   » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:58 pm

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SYED wrote:From the series, the charisians were the only sailors that sailed out of sight of land and sailed the blue waters.


I'm not sure if that's correct. If memory serves, it says in OAR thatthe Charisians were the first to sail out of sight of land and to develop effective navigation, which is why they were such a dominant force in the international naval trade even before the war got underway. I got the impression, though, that other nations' sailors had adopted many if not all of the Charisian techniques.
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Re: EoC Coastal Defense and terror threats (Spoilers)
Post by lyonheart   » Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:13 am

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Hi Anwi,

This has potential, in that somebody might try to sabotage Delthak by sending saboteurs over the mountains from the Tranjyr Passage etc.

But the limits of the schooners for carrying that many extra men would eliminate any prize crews or commerce raiding for the duration of the transport time, the required diversion effectively removes them from Rock Point's primary concern.

If 50 men could be landed from the schooner, they could wreak havoc on a small coastal town, but venturing inland would soon find themselves "ten percented to death", as RAH put it in "Starship Troopers", covering their flanks.

So depending on whether you have a pair of men covering 300-400 yards or a mile on horseback, your penetration will soon be eaten up by your flank coverage; almost half your force in a mile or 6, and the best those guards might do is to warn you the rest have been swamped etc.

In OAR we learned the Charisian militia wasn't very good, by the standards of Siddarmark at least, albeit some were better as our ex-star baseball-man now soldier proved in HFaF etc.

I've previously pointed out having Chisholm professional officers reorganize and train the Chisholm militia might have been a high priority before the SoS, while reequipping with rifles would have been a priority for forward thinking Charisian nobles [NTM most Charisian nobles we've seen are forward looking], and the muzzle loading rifles were being subcontracted to other businesses in BSRA, so more local militia's might have rifles than we thought even if they're not quite as standard as the government issue.

Even with 'only' matchlocks, pistols, arbalests and bows, NTM superior knowledge of the terrain could permit the local reaction force to overwhelm the invaders at night or whittle their numbers down to where they would be inevitably destroyed.

The actual damage to Charis's war making power would be extremely limited at best; ie practically nothing at all, unless they somehow managed to operate on Howell Bay.

All of that would be immaterial to Clyntahn, if he thinks he can bleed Charis at home even slightly.

Even then I think the window for such possibilities to be very limited, a matter of month's at most, before coastal patrols etc eliminate the threat.

L


anwi wrote:*quote="Dilandu"*
(snip)
The problem is, that Charis is more than 9000 kilometers from the Deshnarina coastline, and there is plenty possibilites for invaders to be intercepted.*quote*

True, but the same goes for privateering. The question is how good are coastal defense arrangements. I assume that major harbours and cities are covered. But the countryside?

Highjohn wrote:No. Burn a village take some captives, yes. However, landing a small group of soldiers in unfamiliar land without an possibility of resupply is a suicide mission(fine by the Grand Inquisitor) with no chance of getting near anywhere important(not fine by the Grand Inquisitor). That said, a small number of people could be smuggled in this way, though OWL would see them, so while it could be tried it would fail.


The point is: having several groups of brigands on the loose could actually achieve more for the CoGA than costly attacks on the ICA or ICN :twisted: . They resupply from their victims. Actually finding small and rather mobile groups (kill the heretics!) in a sparsely populated area could be difficult, unless someone with access to OWL takes direct command. And then, you'd still need the troops - which are mostly occupied elsewhere. Regarding not getting near important things - of course they can't burn down Tellesberg; but as I understand Clyntahn, he'd see slaughtering heretics as a worthy goal in itself - sadly. The question is if this asymmetrical warfare is something he, Rayno, or Magwair might pick up on. My thoughts are Rayno might :idea: if privateering shows good early results.
As to actual Rakurai-like attacks: A terror campaign might set the scene (and tie down resources) for someone who choses to blow herself up at an inconvenient spot in the Delthak works :twisted: . I'm kind of wondering that we haven't seen more of that. And delivering those people with privateering vessels might be easier than some of the other alternatives.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: EoC Coastal Defense and terror threats (Spoilers)
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:02 am

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All of that would be immaterial to Clyntahn, if he thinks he can bleed Charis at home even slightly.


Hm, maybe, but i think even the Clyntahn would be forced to admit that this actions are less cost-effective (on the large scale) than regular Rakurai)

On the other hand, it may be possible to use the blockade-runners in attempt to orgaise and arm some sort of domestic Temple Loyalis gurella. At least, they would be able to know the territory.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: EoC Coastal Defense and terror threats (Spoilers)
Post by 6L6   » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:32 am

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The Inner Circle should be able to place their listening devices up and down the Desnairian coast in order to learn of these threats to Charis.
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Re: EoC Coastal Defense and terror threats (Spoilers)
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:36 am

Dilandu
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6L6 wrote:The Inner Circle should be able to place their listening devices up and down the Desnairian coast in order to learn of these threats to Charis.


Yes. But the problem is not to KNEW about them, but to ACT AGAINST so, that it would not make suspicions. The Inner Circle is pretty small, and the possibility that some of them would be in position to do something immediately is pretty small.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: EoC Coastal Defense and terror threats (Spoilers)
Post by lyonheart   » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:32 pm

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Hi Dilandu,

But since the Inquisition plans collaborating with the Desnari were overheard by that incredible network of Seijins Merlin has who passed it along via those long range messenger wyverns, its okay.

Having other Charisian gun makers provide the local militia with muzzle loading rifles, if they haven't already, would be sufficient to match the Desnari invaders, since they aren't making the St Kylman's

L


Dilandu wrote:
6L6 wrote:The Inner Circle should be able to place their listening devices up and down the Desnairian coast in order to learn of these threats to Charis.


Yes. But the problem is not to KNEW about them, but to ACT AGAINST so, that it would not make suspicions. The Inner Circle is pretty small, and the possibility that some of them would be in position to do something immediately is pretty small.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: EoC Coastal Defense and terror threats (Spoilers)
Post by n7axw   » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:45 pm

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Posts: 5997
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lyonheart wrote:Hi Anwi,

This has potential, in that somebody might try to sabotage Delthak by sending saboteurs over the mountains from the Tranjyr Passage etc.

But the limits of the schooners for carrying that many extra men would eliminate any prize crews or commerce raiding for the duration of the transport time, the required diversion effectively removes them from Rock Point's primary concern.

If 50 men could be landed from the schooner, they could wreak havoc on a small coastal town, but venturing inland would soon find themselves "ten percented to death", as RAH put it in "Starship Troopers", covering their flanks.

So depending on whether you have a pair of men covering 300-400 yards or a mile on horseback, your penetration will soon be eaten up by your flank coverage; almost half your force in a mile or 6, and the best those guards might do is to warn you the rest have been swamped etc.

In OAR we learned the Charisian militia wasn't very good, by the standards of Siddarmark at least, albeit some were better as our ex-star baseball-man now soldier proved in HFaF etc.

I've previously pointed out having Chisholm professional officers reorganize and train the Chisholm militia might have been a high priority before the SoS, while reequipping with rifles would have been a priority for forward thinking Charisian nobles [NTM most Charisian nobles we've seen are forward looking], and the muzzle loading rifles were being subcontracted to other businesses in BSRA, so more local militia's might have rifles than we thought even if they're not quite as standard as the government issue.

Even with 'only' matchlocks, pistols, arbalests and bows, NTM superior knowledge of the terrain could permit the local reaction force to overwhelm the invaders at night or whittle their numbers down to where they would be inevitably destroyed.

The actual damage to Charis's war making power would be extremely limited at best; ie practically nothing at all, unless they somehow managed to operate on Howell Bay.

All of that would be immaterial to Clyntahn, if he thinks he can bleed Charis at home even slightly.

Even then I think the window for such possibilities to be very limited, a matter of month's at most, before coastal patrols etc eliminate the threat.

L


Hi Lyonheart,

Something to bear in mind here is that there has been lots of water under the bridge since OAR. There may not be any militia at all, having absorbed it into their regular army.

OR

Maybe they do have local militia, but if that's the case, I bet its a dickens of a lot better than the militia we heard about in OAR which, after all, was a peacetime situation prior to the church's attack.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: EoC Coastal Defense and terror threats (Spoilers)
Post by Randomiser   » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:05 pm

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Posts: 1452
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Dilandu wrote:
6L6 wrote:The Inner Circle should be able to place their listening devices up and down the Desnairian coast in order to learn of these threats to Charis.


Yes. But the problem is not to KNEW about them, but to ACT AGAINST so, that it would not make suspicions. The Inner Circle is pretty small, and the possibility that some of them would be in position to do something immediately is pretty small.


Our 2 skimmer pilots are always in a position to quickly do something about it. Small group of raiders 9000 miles from home and utterly out of contact with everyone else = Seijin fodder. Come to that isolated raiding schooner 8500 miles from home, utterly out of contact, in deep water = sitting target for a few charges attached to the hull underwater. (Sealed clockwork timers striking big percussion caps ...) Only if they are considered to be a serious threat of course. No survivors, no suspicion - except that Charisian counter intelligence is as good as their spies elsewhere.
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Re: EoC Coastal Defense and terror threats (Spoilers)
Post by n7axw   » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:11 pm

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Hi Randomizer,

Yes, it could be how it happens.

But...

that's not how RFC's story works, at least so far. No magic beans, no easy solutions, no ships that mysteriously blow up.
Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: EoC Coastal Defense and terror threats (Spoilers)
Post by SYED   » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:50 pm

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They have some ability to sail, but not necessarily able to apply it in combat.
I wonder if charis will make q ships in great number, so the raider suffer going after the merchant ships.
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