Junior Tactical officers, Do they just serve on the Bridge?

Question that I've been wondering about for a while. Mostly when we see officers of the tactical track in the Honorverse they are on the bridge either as the duty TO or the ATO backing him/her up. I'm pretty sure that there are probably more officers in the tactical section even on a small ship like an old Chanson-class destroyer which according to HoS has 27 officers which if we break down:

Captain, XO, Tactical and ATO, Astro, Assistant Astro, Coms, Assistant Coms, Engineer, Assistant Engineer/DamCon Officer, Logistics, Boat Bay Control Officer (I think that was Scotty's official position in HotQ) and the Surgeon Aboard (I believe according to some comments made in HotQ Troubadour only had the single doc) that gives us thirteen officers, which leaves us fourteen other officers.

Would any of those officers be 'divisional' down on the 'missile deck' supervising either the missile broadside or laser broadside if it was thrown into 'local control' or would they most likely be up in CIC?

It's really unclear. There certainly are indications in David's commentary that there is a separate tactical section that ranges from a few NCOs to a reinforced company on the apollo SD(P)s. But it's odd how I never really get the feeling from the books that there is anyone there other than the computers.

You's expect there are enough engineering officers to provide an officer for 3 shifts for engineering, possibly not including the engineering officer in these 3 shifts. Not sure otherwise.

kzt wrote:It's really unclear. There certainly are indications in David's commentary that there is a separate tactical section that ranges from a few NCOs to a reinforced company on the apollo SD(P)s. But it's odd how I never really get the feeling from the books that there is anyone there other than the computers.

You's expect there are enough engineering officers to provide an officer for 3 shifts for engineering, possibly not including the engineering officer in these 3 shifts. Not sure otherwise.

I would think even more officers for engineering- for a DD, you have environmental, Damage control, Fusion 1&2, and Impeller 1&2, in addition to al the repair and maintenance work all over the ship- I'd figure you'd want to have 2-3 officers on duty at any time , as well as some seasoned non-Comms assigned to each space.

I suspect a destroyer, especially a Roland, probably only has 4 officers in the engineering department - the chief engineer (probably a Lt (SG)) plus one officer per watch (probably a Lt (JG) as assistant engineer and two Ensigns). Tactical is probably the same.

Given how RFC has modeled his naval structure, I'd wager that the officers you're missing are the junior officers in training. Like the divisional officers you mentioned.

Divisional officers would pull multiple duties. From serving as reactor watch officers, to being the officer of the deck on the bridge.

We don't see, in general, a lot of the nuts and bolts of the RMN. Not at the deck plate level. We get some hazing incidents, and training, but the series focuses on the officers. With a small scattering of NCOs.

Take the USN, for example. On a submarine there are about 15 officers. Each division has their own division officer. Each department has it's own department head. Then there's the XO and CO. Occasionally, when a sub is lucky to have the man power, there are a few extra officers floating about. They get assigned as assistants to the department heads.

These officers fill roles as division officers, officer of the deck, engineering officer of the watch, junior officer of the deck, etc. Honestly, it all keeps them very busy. And their first few years on the submarine learning to fight and drive the boat, while doing all the other duties heaped upon them are miserable ones.

The other level of things is the NCOs. The Chief of the Boat (CoB) is the senior enlisted man on board. Like the bosun in RFC's stories. The chiefs run their own divisions and report to their division officers. A couple of senior petty officers really run the divisions and tell the chiefs what they need to know. And below those NCO's are the enlisted at the deck plate who are busy repairing things, training, cleaning, standing watch and operating everything on the ship.

Something else to consider: Just because a crew compliment says xx number of officers, doesn't mean they actually have them.

On a submarine, chronically short of supervisors (and of personnel in general), senior NCO's will fill in for officers fairly often. It isn't uncommon to have empty jobs. We also used to refer to it as 'high five on the pier'. You'd be walking off the sub with your seabag of things, headed to your next assignment. And your replacement would be walking down the pier with his seabag, having just arrived in area. You'd 'high five' as you passed one another on your way past.

All too often, given the shortage of trained personnel, you'd have a gap while the qualified and trained person was gone. You'd wait, not only for the new person to show up, but for them to be trained and brought up to speed on current policies and plans.

The same was true of officers and enlisted. Nominal crew compliment might be 135, but rarely did we have close to that in all my years.

After spending several years in the USN a ship will several officers whose jobs contain multiple hats. Eg look at Alice Truman IIRC she wore several hats Second in command 8th Fleet, Carrier Commander, CarRon 3 CO CarDiv3.1 CO.

But on a ship each department will have several officers or only one or two. This is a break down of the officers on my first ship a Spruance class DD.

CO
XO

Engineering
Chief Engineer
Damage Control Asst.
Main Propulsion Asst.
x2 Engine room Officer

Combat Systems Officer
Sonar Officer
Fire Control/Missile Officer
Gunnery Officer

Admin/Navigation Officer
Asst. Admin/Legal Officer

Supply Officer
Disbursing Officer

Operations Officer
1st LT
Radio Officer
Crypto Officer
Electronics Officer

Usually the admin/navigation officer was by himself as his department was the smallest on the ship with around 12-15 personnel.

saber964 wrote:After spending several years in the USN a ship will several officers whose jobs contain multiple hats. Eg look at Alice Truman IIRC she wore several hats Second in command 8th Fleet, Carrier Commander, CarRon 3 CO CarDiv3.1 CO.

But on a ship each department will have several officers or only one or two. This is a break down of the officers on my first ship a Spruance class DD.

CO
XO

Engineering
Chief Engineer
Damage Control Asst.
Main Propulsion Asst.
x2 Engine room Officer

Combat Systems Officer
Sonar Officer
Fire Control/Missile Officer
Gunnery Officer

Admin/Navigation Officer
Asst. Admin/Legal Officer

Supply Officer
Disbursing Officer

Operations Officer
1st LT
Radio Officer
Crypto Officer
Electronics Officer

Usually the admin/navigation officer was by himself as his department was the smallest on the ship with around 12-15 personnel.

I would say it depends greatly.
as was mentioned I am sure there is an "ideal book configuration" which likely almost NEVER occurs.

this might be something like:
Captain (regardless of actual rank) position
Xo
various department heads: security, engineering, tactical coms navigation weapons etc.

lets say for the moment that the engineering head is a lieutenant commander they will likely have several lieutenants lieutenant jg's and ensigns serving under them the ensigns may or may not rotate to other divisions because that is effectively a OTJ training position for newbie officers. then there will be a crew of various noncoms starting as spaceman, and working up to various higher and higher such as cpo Harkenson
of course those senior chiefs... some of them may have more experience than the captain let alone any of the other officers.

Chaser617 wrote:Question that I've been wondering about for a while. Mostly when we see officers of the tactical track in the Honorverse they are on the bridge either as the duty TO or the ATO backing him/her up.

One of many scenes with junior officers taking a quiet watch:

The Short Victorious War
Chapter Fourteen wrote:"Sweet Jesus, they're Peeps!" Bellerophon's junior tactical officer whispered. The Book didn't like enemy reports like that, but Lieutenant Commander Avshari felt no inclination to criticize. After all, The Book didn't envision this lunatic sort of situation, either.

The lieutenant commander watched his status boards' green lights turn amber and red and wished to hell the Captain would get here. Or the Exec. Or anybody senior to him, because he didn't have a clue and he knew it. This was supposed to be a milk run, a good opportunity for junior watch keepers to get a little bridge time on their logs, but he was a communications officer, for God's sake—and one whose Academy tactical scores had been a disaster, to boot! What the hell was he supposed to do next?

"Sidewalls active! Starboard energy batteries closed up on computer override, Sir!" the youthful lieutenant at Tactical said, and Avshari nodded in relief. That decided which way to turn, anyway.

"Bring us hard to port, Helm."

"Aye, aye, Sir. Coming hard to port."

The dreadnought began her turn, and fresh alarms whooped even as she swung.

"Incoming fire!" the tac officer snapped, and lasers and grasers ripped at Bellerophon's suddenly interposed sidewall. Most of them achieved absolutely nothing as the sidewall bent and degraded them, but red lights bloomed on Avshari's damage control display as half a dozen minor hits cratered her massive armor, and this time he knew exactly what to do.

"Ms. Wolversham, you are authorized to return fire!" Bellerophon's com officer barked the order straight from The Book, and Lieutenant Arlene Wolversham punched the button.

[quote="Chaser617"]Question that I've been wondering about for a while. Mostly when we see officers of the tactical track in the Honorverse they are on the bridge either as the duty TO or the ATO backing him/her up. I'm pretty sure that there are probably more officers in the tactical section even on a small ship like an old Chanson-class destroyer which according to HoS has 27 officers which if we break down:

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Chaser --
I will echo Fireflair and Sabre's comments --
The JO's (at least in the USN) wear multiple hats depending on the situation.
FireFlair and Sabre's breakdown of the Wardroom on the bubbletube and tincan pretty much parallels my observations on a light cruiser (larger tin can) and a certain 1100 ft 8 reactor CVN.
During General Quarters / Battlestations, the Bridge, CIC and DC Central will be manned by the 0-4's or 0-5's and the JO's 0-1 / 0-2's at Damage Control / Repair Lockers with a couple of senior PO1's to advise and keep them out of trouble (just my view of course)
During "normal" operations, they administer their assigned divisions, usually rotating about every year to 18 months between departments to get an operational view of all aspects of the ship.
At the same time they (like their enlisted counterparts) are working on their watch qualifications and their Dolphins or WaterWings (Surface Warfare) quals.

In the Honorverse, the junior Tac Officers would likely have GQ stations in CIC or possibly in missile fire control if not on the bridge or Command Bravo (the names may change depending on service)

-- Stewart (ret USN ET)

Going from memory Honorverse ships have tactical departments. If so, especially on larger ships, you would probably see junior officers in there heading up sections with an NCO 'assisting'.
So far though I don't think we've seen the inner workings of a tactical department.