Solarian Military Catchup Attempts

Hi Jonathan_S,

If the SLN attacks Beowulf soon, as many expect, since the vote could have been in late September and its now October, most of the BF but especially it's entire reserve; will be debris in 2-3 T-weeks after the attack, the reserve being located in just 7 systems makes it almost too easy.

Despite the textev, I suspect the hyper limit for Sol is more than 4 LM beyond Mars, so it will take more than 40 minutes for the 120+ Mistletoe's to get to the BF's SD parking lot.

The mandarin's reaction to the GA fleet staying just long enough to eradicate the reserve and any BF SD's that offer themselves as targets etc would be very entertaining.

I can't wait much longer!

L


[quote="Jonathan_S"][quote="Annachie"]Hmm.
Take a mothballed SD, add extra CM control links and load nothing but CM cannisters in the main tubes.
Refocus the lasers/grasers for a slightly more dispersed beam (after all it should take less energy to destroy a missile than to damage an enemy SD given toughness and range etc) and basically field them as CM ships.
Quick, cheap, off the shelf, and from the Sollies perspective likely to help.
How many more control links they could squeeze in and what they'd have to gut to fit them could be tricky.[/quote]
Aegis is somewhat similar, but they were giving up main missile tubes for control links (plus devoting others to launching CM canisters)

I assume that even with the SLNs relative lack of prior focus on missile combat that they wouldn't have given up tubes for CM fire-control if there'd been a less painful tradeoff. So it seems you wouldn't be able to use all the rest of your main tubes to launch CM canisters - some more would need to be sacrificed for fire control. But that may be just as well. I'm not sure if an SD could avoid CM wedge fratricide if even 60% of its tubes launched CM canisters near simultaneously.

Seriously though, this is a solution they could make pretty quickly. I'm just not sure if its enough of a help, not without faster cycling CM launchers, better CMs, major computer upgrades, etc, etc. Their missile defense sucks for many more reasons than low numbers of CM tubes. All that said, I can't think of any better short term solutions - sucks with all the solutions look insufficient.[/quote]

lyonheart wrote:Hi Jonathan_S,

If the SLN attacks Beowulf soon, as many expect, since the vote could have been in late September and its now October, most of the BF but especially it's entire reserve; will be debris in 2-3 T-weeks after the attack, the reserve being located in just 7 systems makes it almost too easy.

Despite the textev, I suspect the hyper limit for Sol is more than 4 LM beyond Mars, so it will take more than 40 minutes for the 120+ Mistletoe's to get to the BF's SD parking lot.

Must have missed that textev. But unless something weird is going one Mars should be 8.5 lightminutes inside the limit.

Wikipedia tells me that Mars mean orbital distance is 230 million km (12.7 lightminutes); the sun is a G2 class star and the infodump chart of hyperlimit by spectral class says they have a 21.2 lm hyperlimit. 21.2-12.7 = 8.5 lm inside the limit.
(Incidentally over twice the max continuously powered range of an 3-drive MDM)

lyonheart wrote:The mandarin's reaction to the GA fleet staying just long enough to eradicate the reserve and any BF SD's that offer themselves as targets etc would be very entertaining.

I can't wait much longer!

L

Yes, another book would be wonderful. I want to see how this plays out. (Plus of course it'll provide fresh fodder to speculate over)

lyonheart wrote:Hi Jonathan_S,

If the SLN attacks Beowulf soon, as many expect, since the vote could have been in late September and its now October, most of the BF but especially it's entire reserve; will be debris in 2-3 T-weeks after the attack, the reserve being located in just 7 systems makes it almost too easy.

Despite the textev, I suspect the hyper limit for Sol is more than 4 LM beyond Mars, so it will take more than 40 minutes for the 120+ Mistletoe's to get to the BF's SD parking lot.

The mandarin's reaction to the GA fleet staying just long enough to eradicate the reserve and any BF SD's that offer themselves as targets etc would be very entertaining.

I can't wait much longer!

L

The GA attacking the Sol system would be an extremely chancy maneuver on the GA's part. It could easily be taken as an attack on the most holy and revered system in the human settled galaxy, and give the Solarian League something to rally around. This is mentioned in a Call to Arms and is something that the GA/SEM military is very cautious about doing because it could backfire spectacularly on the GA/SEM if they did it.

Zakharra wrote: The GA attacking the Sol system would be an extremely chancy maneuver on the GA's part. It could easily be taken as an attack on the most holy and revered system in the human settled galaxy, and give the Solarian League something to rally around. This is mentioned in a Call to Arms and is something that the GA/SEM military is very cautious about doing because it could backfire spectacularly on the GA/SEM if they did it.

I know that point has been argued/debated in several other threads, but I just have to add that (1) Major fleet bases/repair centers/building slips are located in Sol System along with part of the mothballed fleet, which are valid targets, and (2) Giving the SL a 'free square' where they won't be touched and can do research/rebuilding/commission new ships without the GA doing anything seems to be in the realm of A Bad Idea.

Not attacking or occupying Old Earth--I concur, that would not be a good idea. Taking out the command and control, not to mention the ships and docks in a large raid, like lyonheart suggests? I think it is necessary.

Besides, the only ones (IIRC) who have said again and again in textev that attacking Sol would be a good thing for the SL unity are members of the Mandarins, who haven't been right yet...

IMHO as always. YMMV.

Hutch wrote:

Zakharra wrote: The GA attacking the Sol system would be an extremely chancy maneuver on the GA's part. It could easily be taken as an attack on the most holy and revered system in the human settled galaxy, and give the Solarian League something to rally around. This is mentioned in a Call to Arms and is something that the GA/SEM military is very cautious about doing because it could backfire spectacularly on the GA/SEM if they did it.

I know that point has been argued/debated in several other threads, but I just have to add that (1) Major fleet bases/repair centers/building slips are located in Sol System along with part of the mothballed fleet, which are valid targets, and (2) Giving the SL a 'free square' where they won't be touched and can do research/rebuilding/commission new ships without the GA doing anything seems to be in the realm of A Bad Idea.

Not attacking or occupying Old Earth--I concur, that would not be a good idea. Taking out the command and control, not to mention the ships and docks in a large raid, like lyonheart suggests? I think it is necessary.

Besides, the only ones (IIRC) who have said again and again in textev that attacking Sol would be a good thing for the SL unity are members of the Mandarins, who haven't been right yet...

IMHO as always. YMMV.

In this case they very well could/would be right. The Mars orbital area being a military target or not, the fact the GA attacked the Sol system would turn a LOT of systems against them. And despite the Manticoran ambassador's and a few others obvious disdain for the Sol system, Sol still holds a very special place in many peoples heart and an attack on it, any attack on it, could galvanize support for the Solarian League far above what the GA and MAlign expects.

Hi Zakharra,

I know we have been accepting that an attack on the Sol system would be a rallying point.

But I wonder... Could it be that the rallying point would be an an attack on Earth rather than the Sol system as a whole?

If so maybe an attack on the SLN base on Mars wouldn't provoke the same reaction...

Don

Hutch wrote:

Zakharra wrote: The GA attacking the Sol system would be an extremely chancy maneuver on the GA's part. It could easily be taken as an attack on the most holy and revered system in the human settled galaxy, and give the Solarian League something to rally around. This is mentioned in a Call to Arms and is something that the GA/SEM military is very cautious about doing because it could backfire spectacularly on the GA/SEM if they did it.

I know that point has been argued/debated in several other threads, but I just have to add that (1) Major fleet bases/repair centers/building slips are located in Sol System along with part of the mothballed fleet, which are valid targets, and (2) Giving the SL a 'free square' where they won't be touched and can do research/rebuilding/commission new ships without the GA doing anything seems to be in the realm of A Bad Idea.

Not attacking or occupying Old Earth--I concur, that would not be a good idea. Taking out the command and control, not to mention the ships and docks in a large raid, like lyonheart suggests? I think it is necessary.

Besides, the only ones (IIRC) who have said again and again in textev that attacking Sol would be a good thing for the SL unity are members of the Mandarins, who haven't been right yet...

IMHO as always. YMMV.

There is one other major power who has stated that a major GA attack on the Sol system would be a political fool's game likely to accomplish the strategic opposite of its operational goals...that would be David Weber.

Now, personally, I think that a Dieppe-style 'commando' raid on the Hyperion station, and the Reserve yards, might just be an acceptable ploy...and an irresistibly good READ!

dreamrider

dreamrider wrote:There is one other major power who has stated that a major GA attack on the Sol system would be a political fool's game likely to accomplish the strategic opposite of its operational goals...that would be David Weber.

Now, personally, I think that a Dieppe-style 'commando' raid on the Hyperion station, and the Reserve yards, might just be an acceptable ploy...and an irresistibly good READ!

dreamrider

It's certainly an interesting idea. It would let the SL know (if they somehow didn't get that message by this point) that the GA is serious about this conflict and won't play by the SL's rules anymore. I read a HH fanfiction that touched on that point awhile ago. It wasn't a raid or attack it was a quick drabble about sending in a force under stealth to safely retrieve the Manticoran and Beowulfan delegations from Old Terra. As they were leaving, they'd deliberately trip the sensors and appear and disappear using Ghost Rider tech just to let them know how close they can get and what they could do if they were actually there as a hostile force.

Hutch wrote:(1) Major fleet bases/repair centers/building slips are located in Sol System along with part of the mothballed fleet, which are valid targets, and (2) Giving the SL a 'free square' where they won't be touched and can do research/rebuilding/commission new ships without the GA doing anything seems to be in the realm of A Bad Idea.

As long as SLN ships stay in the Sol system, it won't matter to the GA how many or how capable.

The GA's primary concern regarding SLN R&D is the possibility of a "Bolthole" establishment away from the Sol System; Sol System is just to infested with spies from all sources to maintain any sort of secret project there. The GA can just establish a covert blockade of the Sol system to destroy any SLN movement out of the system.

The risk of the SLN developing some war winning tech in the Sol System and building sufficient numbers to be a threat is far less than the risk of an adverse backlash from any perceived attack on "The Cradle of Mankind" (tm).

Weird Harold wrote:

Hutch wrote:(1) Major fleet bases/repair centers/building slips are located in Sol System along with part of the mothballed fleet, which are valid targets, and (2) Giving the SL a 'free square' where they won't be touched and can do research/rebuilding/commission new ships without the GA doing anything seems to be in the realm of A Bad Idea.

As long as SLN ships stay in the Sol system, it won't matter to the GA how many or how capable.

The GA's primary concern regarding SLN R&D is the possibility of a "Bolthole" establishment away from the Sol System; Sol System is just to infested with spies from all sources to maintain any sort of secret project there. The GA can just establish a covert blockade of the Sol system to destroy any SLN movement out of the system.

The risk of the SLN developing some war winning tech in the Sol System and building sufficient numbers to be a threat is far less than the risk of an adverse backlash from any perceived attack on "The Cradle of Mankind" (tm).

For that matter, the fact that it seems a bad idea to attack anything in the Sol system now doesn't mean that it will remain a bad idea throughout the war.

As the war goes on public opinion may (and likely will) shift further and further against the Mandrins. As that happens the risk that action in the Sol system will cause a solidification of the League against Manticore should reduce. Further Manticore has time to establish their message, for example to lead people to see some future attack as necessary to force an end to a pointless war and stop the Mandarins from continuing to send more and more formations to their deaths.

For that matter, Manticore might actually get intel that convinced them that the risks of leaving Sol as a safe haven any longer are now higher than the risk an attack will serve as a powerful rallying cry.