A Treecat Vocal Comm

Weird Harold wrote:From the scenes with Honor and various other commanders dealing with daily reports, it doesn't seem that Voice Recognition software is the default method of annotating reports.

cthia wrote:I don't know guys. What you are proposing just seems like a waste of what the treecats have already learned - sign language. I think the proposal of utilizing a system similar to the gorilla in Congo has much more merit. It seems more practical to me. Getting information into a treecat via reading, sounds practical, if possible. However, getting info out of them via writing then translating that writing, sounds much more inefficient, slow and cumbersome, compared to technology translating their already existing and much faster than the written word - sign language. Someone communicating via sign language wouldn't naturally want to pick up a stylus to communicate when sign language is literally there at their fingertips. That would be taking a step backwards. Why teach a human to sign in the first place if you are going to revert back to writing.

Of course, the path to commucication is different. Human and treecat. But now that you've taught a treecat to sign - and it has permeated throughout all the cats. Why discard it? And treecats are not going to be able to carry ipads/stylus while sitting atop a person's head. And a person isn't going to want a mobile office atop his head. Albeit, a treecat actually sits atop his person's shoulder, but following the natural progression of life, it won't be long before he'll be utilizing the wasted space atop his person's head as a coffee table for his remote/stylus/ipad.



Also, we have to consider the treecat on a more personal level. Treecats are going to want as less invasion into their space as possible. After all, they are still treecats. Let's close the communication gap as less invasively and with as less hindrance to the cat as possible.

Scenario. A human has a laptop on his lap while working. Suddenly, a serious threat appears. A deadly cobra at one's feet. Where will the laptop, or an ipad end up? Who knows?! Mode of attack prevents pretty. Form follows function. It's the same as what happens when a youngster has to be taught not to swing his back out of his hands after a hit. The youngster goes into attack mode, attacking first base. His bat goes into attack mode against someone's head. "Hey, I told you. Not to throw that bat!"

Now imagine a treecat, with an ipad always in his hand.

The treecat senses danger.

The snarl of a battle cry is uttered.

A flying ipad reflexively ensues and two kills. The treecat's, and the flying ipad's.

Edit:
I suppose more articulate, precise communication could be obtained with the written word. Though still not everyday, all day practical.

Michael Everett wrote:

Zakharra wrote: They could do that now. Treecats can read and understand English (assuming that is the most commonly used language in the Honorverse), so why can't they use something like an I-pad or tablet with a keyboard and pre-programmed responses for many basic commands and phrases/words used? Would it be that hard to teach them that?

Actually, they generally didn't as of Honor Among Enemies. Nimitz didn't know how to read the numbers on the lift, bit he had memorised which buttons to hit in order to take him to specific decks (such as the Horticultural deck where he and Samantha liked to snuggle).

Treecats think differently to humans. While they can innovate to solve a problem, they tend to apply the resulting innovation only to that problem rather than experimenting to see if it helps with any other issue. While this is subject to change (Nimitz and Samantha's kids being raised amongst humans), Treecats are still rather limited from a mental flexability viewpoint.

Besides, why should they try to innovate when they can simply try to copy humans?

pokermind wrote:Perhaps treecats might learn keyboarding, but what if the keyboard is a thing of the ancient past. Our author is already doing most of his writing with voice activated software he still needs the key board for corrections, however given two millennia I'd be surprised if the software was not improved

Poker

Valen123456 wrote:I am not sure why so many comments are going back to stylus/pencil and keyboard options. My little suggestion of a speech generator that could read Treecat sign language and vocalize it was never intended to make life easier for Treecats but for the non-sign language people listening to them.

Going to typed out message relays like your suggesting would be like asking a mute who has only just learned to communicate by taping out morse code with a spoon, to convert to a new musical language played exclusively on a trumpet. Treecats might have just learned to sign and via the Memory Singers spread that learning far faster than any human could hope to achieve. It will take a similar length of time probably to learn how to read and write as we do and does gain them anything they have not just already gained via sign language.

My little glove based vocalizer is a method to help others understand them, and so speed up and ease the transitions, while offering the least physical complication too a Treecat.

cthia wrote:However, a treecat communicating as the default with a manual interface with some hardware, would defeat the most important need for treecats at the moment. Early warning system!

Do you seriously want a treecat to have to interface with some keyboard or static apparatus when he needs to quickly warn of impending danger? Lost time from such an inefficient communication protocol will cost lives. And the mission, at the moment, is to save lives.

I imagine very minitiarized versions of the Congo gorilla hardware with available Honorverse tech that will be as unobstrusive as an armband.

Regardless, you simply cannot forego function in favor of form.

A treecat may need to quickly scream an alert, not search for an interface.

cthia wrote:However, a treecat communicating as the default with a manual interface with some hardware, would defeat the most important need for treecats at the moment. Early warning system!

Do you seriously want a treecat to have to interface with some keyboard or static apparatus when he needs to quickly warn of impending danger? Lost time from such an inefficient communication protocol will cost lives. And the mission, at the moment, is to save lives.

I imagine very minitiarized versions of the Congo gorilla hardware with available Honorverse tech that will be as unobstrusive as an armband.

Regardless, you simply cannot forego function in favor of form.

A treecat may need to quickly scream an alert, not search for an interface.

Zakharra wrote:

cthia wrote:
However, a treecat communicating as the default with a manual interface with some hardware, would defeat the most important need for treecats at the moment. Early warning system!

Do you seriously want a treecat to have to interface with some keyboard or static apparatus when he needs to quickly warn of impending danger? Lost time from such an inefficient communication protocol will cost lives. And the mission, at the moment, is to save lives.

I imagine very minitiarized versions of the Congo gorilla hardware with available Honorverse tech that will be as unobstrusive as an armband.

Regardless, you simply cannot forego function in favor of form.

A treecat may need to quickly scream an alert, not search for an interface.

If they are being used as an early warning system, then they don't necessarily need anything, even signing (which requires line of sight and the recipient to be looking at the treecat in the first place) to sound a warning. They can stioll scream out their alert, or they could hit a button and/or launch themselves at the target, shrieking a buzz saw warcry while their claws pop and prepare to shred said target. Using an electronic interface wouldn't change that ability. Using sign language would in fact be slower than an electronic interface like a tablet or I-pad like device.

As it stands now, there's no need for anymore interface for emergency warnings than what they have been using pre-sign language. That won't change, assuming the emergency is a physical one. So I am failing to see why you think electronic interfaces would be a detriment. Especially since most people cannot understand sign language at all. But they can understand typed or written messages(and with an electronic interface you can pre-program in certain alerts and phrases, all you need to do is hit a button/key. Think of it being like hot-keying a command. All you do it tap the key and the command activates.

Not to mention it would help people see the treecats as intelligent beings, not fluffy quasi-dangerous animals. Being able to hold an intelligent conversation with a treecat? That would blow away a LOT of misconceptions about them.

wiki concerning movie Congo wrote:
Dr. Peter Elliott (Dylan Walsh), a primatologist at the University of California, Berkeley, and his assistant Richard (Grant Heslov) teach human communication to primates using a gorilla named Amy (voiced by Shayna Fox). With a special backpack and glove, her sign language is translated to a digitized voice.

cthia wrote:

Zakharra wrote:

However, a treecat communicating as the default with a manual interface with some hardware, would defeat the most important need for treecats at the moment. Early warning system!

Do you seriously want a treecat to have to interface with some keyboard or static apparatus when he needs to quickly warn of impending danger? Lost time from such an inefficient communication protocol will cost lives. And the mission, at the moment, is to save lives.

I imagine very minitiarized versions of the Congo gorilla hardware with available Honorverse tech that will be as unobstrusive as an armband.

Regardless, you simply [i]cannot forego function in favor of form.

A treecat may need to quickly scream an alert, not search for an interface.[/i]

If they are being used as an early warning system, then they don't necessarily need anything, even signing (which requires line of sight and the recipient to be looking at the treecat in the first place) to sound a warning. They can stioll scream out their alert, or they could hit a button and/or launch themselves at the target, shrieking a buzz saw warcry while their claws pop and prepare to shred said target. Using an electronic interface wouldn't change that ability. Using sign language would in fact be slower than an electronic interface like a tablet or I-pad like device.

As it stands now, there's no need for anymore interface for emergency warnings than what they have been using pre-sign language. That won't change, assuming the emergency is a physical one. So I am failing to see why you think electronic interfaces would be a detriment. Especially since most people cannot understand sign language at all. But they can understand typed or written messages(and with an electronic interface you can pre-program in certain alerts and phrases, all you need to do is hit a button/key. Think of it being like hot-keying a command. All you do it tap the key and the command activates.

Not to mention it would help people see the treecats as intelligent beings, not fluffy quasi-dangerous animals. Being able to hold an intelligent conversation with a treecat? That would blow away a LOT of misconceptions about them.

wiki concerning movie Congo wrote:
Dr. Peter Elliott (Dylan Walsh), a primatologist at the University of California, Berkeley, and his assistant Richard (Grant Heslov) teach human communication to primates using a gorilla named Amy (voiced by Shayna Fox). With a special backpack and glove, her sign language is translated to a digitized voice.

http://youtu.be/KXlSFKLuzTA
But I don't think electronic interfaces would be a detriment. I'm all for the idea. Please see my original post. I simply think that any use of technology/interface should be as practical, efficient, and less invasive as possible.

And the tech in the movie works on movement. Present motion/accelerometer tech pioneeered in our present day tablets to change screen orientation. Video games involving driving. The Wii. etc. Movement of the arms, fingers is instantaneously transferred into speech. An advanced tech base, such as the Honorverse, could forgo all of that with a surgical, transmitting implant just under the skin. Miniaturization. Or perhaps some other slant on the concept made possible with advanced Manty tech. Heck, the GA has Shannon, Hemphill and Simoes now. You don't think that trio can vastly improve on 2014 Old Earth tech?

As far as early warning system. You are correct about the snarling treecats snarl sounding an alarm. But sometimes you need a more descriptive alarm that is more human. Such as "duck!," "get down!," or my personal fave "RUN!" In cases where the People's method of solving certain problems are out of their radius of influence.