Donkey LAC carriage

Dafmeister wrote:

kzt wrote:For a fleet defense unit, you need this why? If they are providing a significant amount of missile defense, doesn't it make sense to slow down to keep up? What exactly is the practical difference between 350 and 425 g of acceleration in practical terms?

Quite a lot, when you have to break back across the hyper limit because you just found out there's a Manty squadron coming to meet you and you're already in missile range. You're taking fire as you run - do you want to face the choice of slowing down or abandoning your missile screen?

Nothing you have can accelerate faster than a RMN SD(p) iirc. So what is the point? Particularly since you can load your LACs, so why does this matter?

kzt wrote:Nothing you have can accelerate faster than a RMN SD(p) iirc. So what is the point? Particularly since you can load your LACs, so why does this matter?

It's not about being faster than a Manty SD(P), it's about getting back across the hyper limit as fast as possible with as little damage as possible before you cross the alpha wall and flee. If your anti-missile screen can't keep up with you, you either have to slow down to let them stay with you, which means you stay in-system longer and take fire for longer, at closer range (though still outside the range at which you can fire back), or you leave the screen behind, shortening the time you're under fire but weakening your defence.

Dafmeister wrote:

kzt wrote:Nothing you have can accelerate faster than a RMN SD(p) iirc. So what is the point? Particularly since you can load your LACs, so why does this matter?

It's not about being faster than a Manty SD(P), it's about getting back across the hyper limit as fast as possible with as little damage as possible before you cross the alpha wall and flee. If your anti-missile screen can't keep up with you, you either have to slow down to let them stay with you, which means you stay in-system longer and take fire for longer, at closer range (though still outside the range at which you can fire back), or you leave the screen behind, shortening the time you're under fire but weakening your defence.

A cynical or wise (depending on your POV) CO would sacrifice the LACs to cover his rear end as he skipped out as fast as he could.

Just a thought

T&R
GJS

George J. Smith wrote:A cynical or wise (depending on your POV) CO would sacrifice the LACs to cover his rear end as he skipped out as fast as he could.

Just a thought

T&R
GJS

The LACs would definitely have to sacrificed, unless you have a proper LAC carrier that can do a fast pick-up before translating out. My point is that, if your LACs can't match your SDs acceleration, then before you ditch them and run you either have to slow down to stay with them and therefore take longer getting away, or leave them behind and weaken your missile defence net.

Dafmeister wrote:

George J. Smith wrote:A cynical or wise (depending on your POV) CO would sacrifice the LACs to cover his rear end as he skipped out as fast as he could.

Just a thought

T&R
GJS

The LACs would definitely have to sacrificed, unless you have a proper LAC carrier that can do a fast pick-up before translating out. My point is that, if your LACs can't match your SDs acceleration, then before you ditch them and run you either have to slow down to stay with them and therefore take longer getting away, or leave them behind and weaken your missile defence net.

I wasn't thinking in terms of ditching them, more in terms of using them to cover the retreat.


T&R
GJS

George J. Smith wrote:I wasn't thinking in terms of ditching them, more in terms of using them to cover the retreat.


T&R
GJS

Honestly, I can't see that working on many GA characters. The kind of weapon loads SLN LACs could carry would't be worth worrying about - even GA SDM ships could take them out before they got into range, given the range enhancements their SDMs have had, and most GA forces could swat their missiles out of the sky without any trouble at all.

Dafmeister wrote:

George J. Smith wrote:I wasn't thinking in terms of ditching them, more in terms of using them to cover the retreat.


T&R
GJS

Honestly, I can't see that working on many GA characters. The kind of weapon loads SLN LACs could carry would't be worth worrying about - even GA SDM ships could take them out before they got into range, given the range enhancements their SDMs have had, and most GA forces could swat their missiles out of the sky without any trouble at all.

I believe the idea was for the SLN to build pure CM/PDLC LACs. Missile defense units.

They wouldn't be launching anything at GA forces, just at incoming missiles.


Though I still think that'll fail. Even if they can keep up with the SLN wallers I figure they won't be effective enough, or they'll run out of CMs too quickly, or the GA will just send a LAC sweep to eliminate them and resume the missile fight.

Dafmeister wrote:It's not about being faster than a Manty SD(P), it's about getting back across the hyper limit as fast as possible with as little damage as possible before you cross the alpha wall and flee. If your anti-missile screen can't keep up with you, you either have to slow down to let them stay with you, which means you stay in-system longer and take fire for longer, at closer range (though still outside the range at which you can fire back), or you leave the screen behind, shortening the time you're under fire but weakening your defence.

Dude, the RMN can shoot at you from or to the hyperlimit, which is enough time for an SD(p) to empty it's entire pod load at you. Nobody survives trying to run away under that kind of firepower. So if you end up trying to retreat under long range Apollo fire they are going to blow you into very small pieces while you do nothing to them. So don't do that. Besides that, they will probably have another force for you outside the hyper limit if you screwed up that badly.

kzt wrote:Dude, the RMN can shoot at you from or to the hyperlimit, which is enough time for an SD(p) to empty it's entire pod load at you. Nobody survives trying to run away under that kind of firepower. So if you end up trying to retreat under long range Apollo fire they are going to blow you into very small pieces while you do nothing to them. So don't do that. Besides that, they will probably have another force for you outside the hyper limit if you screwed up that badly.

You're assuming a full fleet action. What if you're an SLN Vice-Admiral commanding a raiding force, a battle squadron and screen, and you find there's a squadron of Sag-Cs or Agamemnons waiting for you? You're not under Apollo fire, but you're taking Mk 16s from 30 million km out, one of your SDs has already been hammered and you know you can't bring them into your range. But maybe you can get into hyper before they blow your whole command to pieces. You're only up against a system picket, they probably don't have an ambush force waiting to trap you, and even if they do you've still got a job to do if you want to have any kind of career when the SLN finally crushes these neobarbs. Do you want to be handcuffed to an anti-missile screen that's building delta-v 20g slower than your flagship?

Dafmeister wrote:Do you want to be handcuffed to an anti-missile screen that's building delta-v 20g slower than your flagship?

So do the math. if they are the system defense picket and you are just seeing them at 30 million KM, how far are you from the hyperlimit? I'd guess about a billion KM. How fast are you going at a billion KM into the hyperlimit and in what direction? You are well past turnover and are heading towards the planet with a constantly reducing velocity.

How much slower is 20g in this situation? How does this matter in any practical way? Is there ANY possible way you can expect to run out of range before the RMN fires off every single Mk-16 in their magazines?

Second, are you better off with slower missile defense ships or with no missile defense ships?

lastly, if it's a single CA squadron, and you are running with enough LACs to matter, that is roughly 200 DD scale equivelents, so an extra 400-800 CM launchers and 400-800 PDCs. Assume 400 CMs per and you should be able to absorb their missile fire as you shoot them with the pods of big MDMs you have. Which is the intelligent decision, as reversing your vector and getting the hell out of dodge is just not going to work, it's faster to continue the attack and overrun them.


And yeah, if you don't have a large number of MDM pods with you and don't have a large number of LACS and they don't mount a decent number of rapidly firing anti-missile weapons, then you are probably going to die. But if you have time to design and build an anti-missile LAC you have time to do all the rest.