Ebola Virus

Jerry Pournelle, a keen observer of science, government and history, posts about Ebola on his blog, and it isn't reassuring at all:

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmano ... overnment/

The fact that the government has seen fit to appoint a political operative as the "Ebola Czar" is of great concern, while the limited training American service members are getting (despite the breaching of quarantine and "Hazmat suit" equipped doctors with advanced training is sure to raise some eyebrows as well.

The simple and effective solution: banning air travel to and from affected nations seems to be a bridge too far for the political class.

Perhaps the best solution would be to spread some rumours:

1. Ebola is rampant on US golf courses, and
2. The vector for Ebola is undocumented people crossing the US border.

Bet you's see plenty of action then.

Fever is an early symptom. Sterilizing thermometers with bleach might work, but this might be a good place to use BJs idea of using hydrogen peroxide - anyone know what H2O2 does to viruses?

There are two reports on companies in that area stopping ebola in their people. The latest is the 80,000 person rubber company (Firestone, I think) in Liberia. The method at both seems to be a combination of strict quarantine, sterilizing, and strong education on just what to do.

When I was young, they quarantined for measles, polio, etc. At the TB hospital where I delivered papers they had light bulbs that would also put out UV light. I know black light bulbs are available now. Can anyone expand on this? I think we've been spoiled by good antibiotics and such.

Re: vaccines. Don't forget that mass production has a ramp up time. Even a good vaccine might not be available in large amounts quickly.

Somewhere in this thread is mention of a disease currently in the US which is also deadly. The poster didn't provide a link. I suspect this may be right. Maybe. Perhaps.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... going-numb

DDHv wrote:Fever is an early symptom. Sterilizing thermometers with bleach might work, but this might be a good place to use BJs idea of using hydrogen peroxide - anyone know what H2O2 does to viruses?

There are two reports on companies in that area stopping ebola in their people. The latest is the 80,000 person rubber company (Firestone, I think) in Liberia. The method at both seems to be a combination of strict quarantine, sterilizing, and strong education on just what to do.

When I was young, they quarantined for measles, polio, etc. At the TB hospital where I delivered papers they had light bulbs that would also put out UV light. I know black light bulbs are available now. Can anyone expand on this? I think we've been spoiled by good antibiotics and such.

Re: vaccines. Don't forget that mass production has a ramp up time. Even a good vaccine might not be available in large amounts quickly.

Interesting website http://www.globalbiodefense.com

UV first. Amazon search uv wand, there are several. Among other places, libraries use them, well, some libraries use them and some restaurants and I'm sure many others. Good thing to have in an office or have one you carry in your bag or whatever for your own use.

Yes, hydrogen peroxide is effective against a lot of bacteria, viruses, fungi and other nasties. Google the question: Is hydrogen peroxide effective against viruses?

One of the sites that comes up is the CDC with articles on assorted agents, including on hydrogen peroxide. This is the source of my answer. Hydrogen peroxide does degrade quickly in light, that is why it comes in those opaque brown bottles, so the effect would be straight out of one of those bottles not after sitting around in light.

Alcohol is also effective against viruses. Purel type, rubbing alcohol type, booze type. Long ago doctor's offices kept the old fashioned mercury and glass thermometers in a tube of rubbing alcohol then dried it and rinsed it -rubbing alcohol will kill us also - and popped in in the patient's mouth.

Lysol works. Betadine, plain bleach-- though be careful with dose directions for purifying water etc. Bleach is now twice as concentrated as it used to be so be sure your plain bleach and the directions are of the same time frame. No fragrances or any other stuff, plain Clorox type bleach. It should smell faintly of bleach with the right dose in it. Let sit. The bleach will evaporate out over a few hours. This is why if you are on city water and have fish tanks you are supposed to let the water stand before adding to the tank, or so the directions used to be way back when anyway. Check the concentration percentages listed.

Another early symptom mentioned assorted places, including in The Hot Zone, is a headache that will not go away. Thing is, Ebola is actually related somewhat to things like influenza and even some strains of the common cold and can pretend to be them for a while. This means not to panic if you get a headache or temp or whatever, unless you have been in really close contact with a genuine Ebola case. It is probably one of its more distant cousins visiting you.

The combination of strict quarantining, sterilization and accurate information is what has stopped most outbreaks of disease. Well, the ones that were actually stopped, as contrasted with the ones that burned through humanity until there were no more susceptible persons left. This is why people instinctively think quarantine.

Frankly, I'm more than a little tired of government types making condescending poopoo comments about the idea. Because quarantine is very difficult to implement does not mean it should not be used.

There is a young man who sat on the plane near Amber who has self quarantined for 21 days. I wish him well with that and he has my utmost respect. He is looking death in the eye - yes, I do know it is very very unlikely he will get it, Mr Duncan's fiance has not broken with Ebola eh? - but it is still a difficult thing to contemplate, alone for 21 days.

PS from a previous comment of mine. I do know the difference between a meteor and a meteorite. I meant meteor ... which makes it real, real unlikely you or I are going to get Ebola... long as it does not go airborne. It does that ... all bets are off.

As I write this, Ebola fears mount, ranging from legitimate concerns to hysteria. Granted, there is a great deal about this disease that is not known with a high degree of certainty, but my guess is that a great part of the problem in Africa is the almost total deficiency in elementary sanitation, and the almost total inability of the health-care systems in the affected regions to offer even the most elementary supportive measures. When sanitation and supportive measures are available, Ebola appears to be effectively controllable, such as in a very large Goodyear rubber plantation in Liberia, which is in near proximity to villages that have been ravaged by Ebola. Within the plantation community, which houses 8,500 employees and 71,200 dependents, there have been very, very few fatal cases and very little transmission. As of the beginning of October, there was only one Ebola patient in the community. This was accomplished through sanitation and supportive care. I do not think we need to fear a spread of Ebola here in our midst.

And something else to anticipate, perhaps relatively soon, is a rapid Ebola blood test. An outfit in Colorado called Corgenix (CONX) is close to perfecting a blood test that can detect Ebola in as little as 15 minutes. Other Ebola blood tests, slower and more complicated, may also be available. I think we can look forward to something more accurate than a thermometer being employed at US airports to screen incoming passengers from affected regions. The question is, how soon.

From:

http://www.stockgumshoe.com/2014/10/mic ... dium=email

Within the first week of breaking news of Ebola, my 12-yr-old niece says to her mother and I, "I think the US government should treat Ebola as a Weapon of Mass Destruction.

Sis and I just stared at her in awe of her insight.

She was right, you know. USAMRIID should have high tailed it to Africa first sign of Ebola. Especially with Africa being a poor third world country with unsanitary and Ebola friendly traditions and practices. At first appearance on the scene, immediately Ebola is a threat to US soil as well as the world.

I am disappointed that USAMRIID didn't have an early response contingency already in place for any Ebola outbreaks that would occur anywhere, much less Africa.

I am willing to bet, that if Ebola is defeated this time, that any future outbreaks will be met on an early response basis. Always proceed as if the virus is in this country. If not, it will be coming.

What took our govt. and USAMRIID so fricking long?

Although she's a genius, if a 12-yr-old could see it, why couldn't the powers that be?

USAMRIID immediately meeting the threat head on would have accomplished at least two things ...

1. The best chance of total containment.
2. Early warning system. For if Ebola would have spread past USAMRIID, we'd have a better handle on its serious nature, that we don't seem to have even now.

Ebola represents a serious oversight in foreign policy.

An effective quarantine needs to have people willing to follow it or they'll just conceal the fact that they've been there and we'll have real trouble.

This is what I'd do were I Obama.

1. Direct flights to West Africa leaving from Atlanta. People on those flights will be required to arrive 3 days in advance for hands on training at the CDC. Training will consist of learning to protect oneself from Ebola using equipment actually available in West Africa. Training will be hands on not just videos and ppt presentations. It takes practice to learn to put gloves on and off safely etc. Training will be free courtesy of the US government.

2. Travel to afflicted west african nations will be banned except for Doctors, nurses, Christian aid workers, NGO aid workers, and those with family members in the afflicted countries. (Basically the type of people you'd expect to evade a travel ban anyway. We need to know that they are going so we can monitor them on their return.)

3. Entry into the US from West Africa will be followed by a 21 day quarantine period. Use a decommissioned military base that hasn't been repurposed yet for quarantine housing. Preferably close to Atlanta if one is available there.

A. Job protection during quarantine. i.e. your employer can't lay you off for entering quarantine.

B. Financial protection for all losses suffered as a result of being in quarantine: lost wages etc. Plus a bonus equivalent to an extra 50% of the lost wages. Basically pay people to do it. For those without lost wages (some of those Christian aid workers for example) pay them a flat $ amount TBD.

C. Cable, internet connection, e readers etc to keep people from being so bored they sneak off.

D. Now the stick - Failure to enter quarantine after visiting a afflicted country is punishable by up to 20 years in prison.

cthia wrote:Within the first week of breaking news of Ebola, my 12-yr-old niece says to her mother and I, "I think the US government should treat Ebola as a Weapon of Mass Destruction.

Sis and I just stared at her in awe of her insight.

She was right, you know. USAMRIID should have high tailed it to Africa first sign of Ebola. Especially with Africa being a poor third world country with unsanitary and Ebola friendly traditions and practices. At first appearance on the scene, immediately Ebola is a threat to US soil as well as the world.

I am disappointed that USAMRIID didn't have an early response contingency already in place for any Ebola outbreaks that would occur anywhere, much less Africa.

I am willing to bet, that if Ebola is defeated this time, that any future outbreaks will be met on an early response basis. Always proceed as if the virus is in this country. If not, it will be coming.

What took our govt. and USAMRIID so fricking long?

Although she's a genius, if a 12-yr-old could see it, why couldn't the powers that be?

USAMRIID immediately meeting the threat head on would have accomplished at least two things ...

1. The best chance of total containment.
2. Early warning system. For if Ebola would have spread past USAMRIID, we'd have a better handle on its serious nature, that we don't seem to have even now.

Ebola represents a serious oversight in foreign policy.

I know you've read The Hot Zone recently. Remember USAMRIID's Peter Jahrling? Of the test tube sniffing oops moment etc. Well, Peter Jahrling is in Monrovia and has been for quite some time working with the Ebola epidemic there. Google him, there's an article floating around of an interview he gave recently. Speaking of The Hot Zone, Richard Preston is updating it for a new release. And has an article out about Ebola now, but darned if I can remember what magazine it is in.

edit: just googled it. Google richard preston ebola. There are two articles one in August and one in October in The New Yorker.

I don't know which ABC agency is actually paying Jahrling at the moment. But just because we do not know what USAMRIID is doing does not mean they are not busy. Remember their attitude toward telling the press anything? Anyone who has read THZ knows they have a level 4 biocontainment hospital facility, aka The Slammer. Notice it has not been listed among those available. They are closed mouthed about a lot of things. Just sayin...

Of course if they haven't been busy, they darn well should be.

edited to add data.

biochem wrote:An effective quarantine needs to have people willing to follow it or they'll just conceal the fact that they've been there and we'll have real trouble.

This is what I'd do were I Obama.

1. Direct flights to West Africa leaving from Atlanta. People on those flights will be required to arrive 3 days in advance for hands on training at the CDC. Training will consist of learning to protect oneself from Ebola using equipment actually available in West Africa. Training will be hands on not just videos and ppt presentations. It takes practice to learn to put gloves on and off safely etc. Training will be free courtesy of the US government.

2. Travel to afflicted west african nations will be banned except for Doctors, nurses, Christian aid workers, NGO aid workers, and those with family members in the afflicted countries. (Basically the type of people you'd expect to evade a travel ban anyway. We need to know that they are going so we can monitor them on their return.)

3. Entry into the US from West Africa will be followed by a 21 day quarantine period. Use a decommissioned military base that hasn't been repurposed yet for quarantine housing. Preferably close to Atlanta if one is available there.

A. Job protection during quarantine. i.e. your employer can't lay you off for entering quarantine.

B. Financial protection for all losses suffered as a result of being in quarantine: lost wages etc. Plus a bonus equivalent to an extra 50% of the lost wages. Basically pay people to do it. For those without lost wages (some of those Christian aid workers for example) pay them a flat $ amount TBD.

C. Cable, internet connection, e readers etc to keep people from being so bored they sneak off.

D. Now the stick - Failure to enter quarantine after visiting a afflicted country is punishable by up to 20 years in prison.

All completely sensible and well reasoned.

But since when under what government has the US ever been sensible about this sort of thing?

There is a Churchill quote to the effect that the US Government will always do the right thing... after it has exhausted all other possible actions. alas, too true.

They have take a teeny tiny baby step an are now requiring persons coming into the US from Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone to monitor their temp twice a day and report to the government about it every day for 21 says. Not sure how they are going to verify the truth of the answers but.. sigh.

Northstar wrote:

cthia wrote:Within the first week of breaking news of Ebola, my 12-yr-old niece says to her mother and I, "I think the US government should treat Ebola as a Weapon of Mass Destruction.

Sis and I just stared at her in awe of her insight.

She was right, you know. USAMRIID should have high tailed it to Africa first sign of Ebola. Especially with Africa being a poor third world country with unsanitary and Ebola friendly traditions and practices. At first appearance on the scene, immediately Ebola is a threat to US soil as well as the world.

I am disappointed that USAMRIID didn't have an early response contingency already in place for any Ebola outbreaks that would occur anywhere, much less Africa.

I am willing to bet, that if Ebola is defeated this time, that any future outbreaks will be met on an early response basis. Always proceed as if the virus is in this country. If not, it will be coming.

What took our govt. and USAMRIID so fricking long?

Although she's a genius, if a 12-yr-old could see it, why couldn't the powers that be?

USAMRIID immediately meeting the threat head on would have accomplished at least two things ...

1. The best chance of total containment.
2. Early warning system. For if Ebola would have spread past USAMRIID, we'd have a better handle on its serious nature, that we don't seem to have even now.

Ebola represents a serious oversight in foreign policy.

I know you've read The Hot Zone recently. Remember USAMRIID's Peter Jahrling? Of the test tube sniffing oops moment etc. Well, Peter Jahrling is in Monrovia and has been for quite some time working with the Ebola epidemic there. Google him, there's an article floating around of an interview he gave recently. Speaking of The Hot Zone, Richard Preston is updating it for a new release. And has an article out about Ebola now, but darned if I can remember what magazine it is in.

edit: just googled it. Google richard preston ebola. There are two articles one in August and one in October in The New Yorker.

I don't know which ABC agency is actually paying Jahrling at the moment. But just because we do not know what USAMRIID is doing does not mean they are not busy. Remember their attitude toward telling the press anything? Anyone who has read THZ knows they have a level 4 biocontainment hospital facility, aka The Slammer. Notice it has not been listed among those available. They are closed mouthed about a lot of things. Just sayin...

Of course if they haven't been busy, they darn well should be.

edited to add data.

Thanks for that info about the updated edition, Star. My niece will be excited as well over that.

Peculiar though, Preston was interviewed by Deborah Norville on "Inside Edition" just yesterday. He failed to plug his own book!?

He made a frightening comment, I hope I don't screw it up (having a bite inside a noisy sports bar) ...

"The Ebola virus is mutating just a little every time it infects a new human host. Remember, it doesn't have to go airborne to become a more dangerous killer. It could mutate in other ways that enables it to infect faster."

Or something like that. Like I said, the sports bar was noisy. Anyone see that interview? Short.

cthia wrote:

Northstar wrote:
I know you've read The Hot Zone recently. Remember USAMRIID's Peter Jahrling? Of the test tube sniffing oops moment etc. Well, Peter Jahrling is in Monrovia, capitol of Liberia, and has been for quite some time working with the Ebola epidemic there. Google him, there's an article floating around of an interview he gave recently. Speaking of The Hot Zone, Richard Preston is updating it for a new release. And has an article out about Ebola now, but darned if I can remember what magazine it is in.

edit: just googled it. Google richard preston ebola. There are two articles one in August and one in October in The New Yorker.

I don't know which ABC agency is actually paying Jahrling at the moment. But just because we do not know what USAMRIID is doing does not mean they are not busy. Remember their attitude toward telling the press anything? Anyone who has read THZ knows they have a level 4 biocontainment hospital facility, aka The Slammer. Notice it has not been listed among those available. They are closed mouthed about a lot of things. Just sayin...

Of course if they haven't been busy, they darn well should be.

edited to add data.

Thanks for that info about the updated edition, Star. My niece will be excited as well over that.

Peculiar though, Preston was interviewed by Deborah Norville on "Inside Edition" just yesterday. He failed to plug his own book!?

He made a frightening comment, I hope I don't screw it up (having a bite inside a noisy sports bar) ...

"The Ebola virus is mutating just a little every time it infects a new human host. Remember, it doesn't have to go airborne to become a more dangerous killer. It could mutate in other ways that enables it to infect faster."

Or something like that. Like I said, the sports bar was noisy. Anyone see that interview? Short.

In the interview I saw it didn't say when the new edition is coming out, only that he was working on it. Sooo in progress and something to watch for occasionally.

Jahrling's interview was also to the effect he thought the virus was becoming more dangerous because patients were carrying higher viral loads than in previous outbreaks.

This constant mutation stuff is something it has in common with the common cold and influenza, both of which are also prone to frequent mutation, as is HIV. This is yet one more selfish reason to spend the resources to get this epidemic under control in Africa. Every jump to a new person is another opportunity for it to mutate in a new environment, including playing viral kissyface with any other virus that person happens to be harboring. If people are unwilling to do it because it is the humane and right thing to do, then support it for this reason.

For your niece, meanwhile, I recommend the various books I've mentioned in previous posts on this thread as some other resources to explore and different points of view to consider. I'm sure there are many more. searching words at amazon books like virus hunters, cdc, pandemic, epidemic etc would turn up several. There are also three others on the general topic of scary diseases by Richard Preston; The Demon in the Freezer, Panic in Level 4, and his novel, The Cobra Event.

There is also that grand classic, The Plague, by Albert Camus. Still scary after all these years and still bang on human reactions etc. Who knows, she may end up in Epidemiology or virology one day.