Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)

Nynian appears to be sounding Merlin out about an alliance with SSK, and mentions she has actually held Seijin Kohdy's mythical sword, Helm Cleaver, in her hands.

One thing Charis will have to do with respect to any territory it conquers, is to win over that territory's people, if it's possible. Charis has managed it in Chisolm, Emerald and Corisande, and the effect of the Sword of Schueler has made that easy in Siddarmark. But what of any new territories that are occupied?

If the stories about Helm Cleaver are well-known throughout Safehold, might it be possible that possession and use of Helm Cleaver by Merlin or Nimue would give a bit of imprimatur to the position that the seijins are the good guys?

In which case, having Merlin or Nimue use Helm Cleaver publicly in CoGA-held territory, so that witnesses could see it and his use of it, might be a thought that is of interest to Cayleb and the rest of the insiders.

Just a thought.

XofDallas wrote:Nynian appears to be sounding Merlin out about an alliance with SSK, and mentions she has actually held Seijin Kohdy's mythical sword, Helm Cleaver, in her hands.

One thing Charis will have to do with respect to any territory it conquers, is to win over that territory's people, if it's possible. Charis has managed it in Chisolm, Emerald and Corisande, and the effect of the Sword of Schueler has made that easy in Siddarmark. But what of any new territories that are occupied?

If the stories about Helm Cleaver are well-known throughout Safehold, might it be possible that possession and use of Helm Cleaver by Merlin or Nimue would give a bit of imprimatur to the position that the seijins are the good guys?

In which case, having Merlin or Nimue use Helm Cleaver publicly in CoGA-held territory, so that witnesses could see it and his use of it, might be a thought that is of interest to Cayleb and the rest of the insiders.

Just a thought.

It might be a thought. However acquiring it might be delicate business since along with St. Khody's journal it would be a holy relic, or at least a treasured artifact of the Sisters of St Khody...

Don

XofDallas wrote:Nynian appears to be sounding Merlin out about an alliance with SSK, and mentions she has actually held Seijin Kohdy's mythical sword, Helm Cleaver, in her hands.

One thing Charis will have to do with respect to any territory it conquers, is to win over that territory's people, if it's possible. Charis has managed it in Chisolm, Emerald and Corisande, and the effect of the Sword of Schueler has made that easy in Siddarmark. But what of any new territories that are occupied?

If the stories about Helm Cleaver are well-known throughout Safehold, might it be possible that possession and use of Helm Cleaver by Merlin or Nimue would give a bit of imprimatur to the position that the seijins are the good guys?

In which case, having Merlin or Nimue use Helm Cleaver publicly in CoGA-held territory, so that witnesses could see it and his use of it, might be a thought that is of interest to Cayleb and the rest of the insiders.

Just a thought.

While it does seem that tales of Seijin Kohdy are widespread on Safehold, for everyone but the SSk, they're just tales - fairy tales, myths, what have you. They're not true. I imagine the average Safeholdian's reaction to being told that this particular sword is Helm Cleaver would be somewhere between confusion and amusement, neither of which are conducive to enhancing the authority of the sword-bearer.

Furthermore, given that the ultimate long-term goal of the inner circle is to destroy the CoGA and reveal the Writ to be false, using any branch of the CoGA as legitimation is going to be a problem in the long run. I certainly can see how some people might decide that defeating the Church in the short run is more important, but I don't think Merlin or Cayleb would agree. Witness, for instance, Cayleb's insistence on maintaining a sizable portion of their industrial capacity for expansion, as opposed to devoting every last resource to production.

Hi InvisibleBison,

Quite right.

Before using Helm Cleaver to imply his imprimatur, the continental populations have to know Seijin Khody was real, which requires the SSK to reveal their secrets regarding him and his relics, as discussed in another thread , on a continental scale, which is unlikely while the inquisition is still around.

Therefore by the time time people might recognise Helm cleaver, it'd be largely unnecessary or redundant, ie Merlin had been proved right already.

L

InvisibleBison wrote:

XofDallas wrote:Nynian appears to be sounding Merlin out about an alliance with SSK, and mentions she has actually held Seijin Kohdy's mythical sword, Helm Cleaver, in her hands.

One thing Charis will have to do with respect to any territory it conquers, is to win over that territory's people, if it's possible. Charis has managed it in Chisolm, Emerald and Corisande, and the effect of the Sword of Schueler has made that easy in Siddarmark. But what of any new territories that are occupied?

If the stories about Helm Cleaver are well-known throughout Safehold, might it be possible that possession and use of Helm Cleaver by Merlin or Nimue would give a bit of imprimatur to the position that the seijins are the good guys?

In which case, having Merlin or Nimue use Helm Cleaver publicly in CoGA-held territory, so that witnesses could see it and his use of it, might be a thought that is of interest to Cayleb and the rest of the insiders.

Just a thought.

While it does seem that tales of Seijin Kohdy are widespread on Safehold, for everyone but the SSk, they're just tales - fairy tales, myths, what have you. They're not true. I imagine the average Safeholdian's reaction to being told that this particular sword is Helm Cleaver would be somewhere between confusion and amusement, neither of which are conducive to enhancing the authority of the sword-bearer.

Furthermore, given that the ultimate long-term goal of the inner circle is to destroy the CoGA and reveal the Writ to be false, using any branch of the CoGA as legitimation is going to be a problem in the long run. I certainly can see how some people might decide that defeating the Church in the short run is more important, but I don't think Merlin or Cayleb would agree. Witness, for instance, Cayleb's insistence on maintaining a sizable portion of their industrial capacity for expansion, as opposed to devoting every last resource to production.

Does anyone on Safehold really know what Helmcleaver LOOKS like? It's described as a "magic sword", but that's a vague description and swords come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Merlin's own swords would certainly qualify to be "Helmcleaver" if their design wasn't explicitly alien to Safehold.

Also, it's likely the Archangels issued standardized swords to their Seijinn. Even if everyone knows what those swords look like (Safeholdian swords might be patterned after them), how could anyone be sure that a particular magic sword was THE Helmcleaver?

evilauthor wrote:Does anyone on Safehold really know what Helmcleaver LOOKS like? It's described as a "magic sword", but that's a vague description and swords come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Merlin's own swords would certainly qualify to be "Helmcleaver" if their design wasn't explicitly alien to Safehold.

Also, it's likely the Archangels issued standardized swords to their Seijinn. Even if everyone knows what those swords look like (Safeholdian swords might be patterned after them), how could anyone be sure that a particular magic sword was THE Helmcleaver?

All of a sudden I had an idea for a "funny"
merlin, or nimue making up a sword that says "helm Cleaver" down the blade, and with a voice generator (built into the sword) that as theyt start wielding it has the "sword" yelling I am helm cleaver fear me... or some such

Guardiandashi wrote:

evilauthor wrote:Does anyone on Safehold really know what Helmcleaver LOOKS like? It's described as a "magic sword", but that's a vague description and swords come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Merlin's own swords would certainly qualify to be "Helmcleaver" if their design wasn't explicitly alien to Safehold.

Also, it's likely the Archangels issued standardized swords to their Seijinn. Even if everyone knows what those swords look like (Safeholdian swords might be patterned after them), how could anyone be sure that a particular magic sword was THE Helmcleaver?

All of a sudden I had an idea for a "funny"
merlin, or nimue making up a sword that says "helm Cleaver" down the blade, and with a voice generator (built into the sword) that as theyt start wielding it has the "sword" yelling I am helm cleaver fear me... or some such

Or how about A big floating holographic neon sign that says 'Look he's using Helm Cleaver!'? How else would you spread the news? By the way, can I introduce you to Robin Hood?

I had Merlin's katana pictured as a scottish style broadsword... anybody else have better ideas?

Don

A katana is a type of sword different than the Scottish style broadsword.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katana

Now I picture a sword called "Helm Cleaver" as a broadsword or a claymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket-hilted_sword

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore

n7axw wrote:I had Merlin's katana pictured as a scottish style broadsword... anybody else have better ideas?

Don

DrakBibliophile wrote:A katana is a type of sword different than the Scottish style broadsword.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katana

Now I picture a sword called "Helm Cleaver" as a broadsword or a claymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket-hilted_sword

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore

n7axw wrote:I had Merlin's katana pictured as a scottish style broadsword... anybody else have better ideas?

Don

Hi Drak,

Thanks for the references. That was interesting.

Don