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Information I'd love to know

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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by dreamrider   » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:43 am

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roseandheather wrote:What happened to Everard Honeker.

Who holds what Cabinet post in Eloise's government, and what their background is.

What Leslie Montreau looks like, because I need cosplay possibilities and I cannot pull off platinum hair.

What a Grayson woman would wear on a non-formal occasion.

What the heck Tom Theisman got up to that one awful drunken night in his third year at the Academy.

What happens when Sonja Hemphill encounters Shannon Foraker in person for the first time. (That one, at least, I have hope will actually get answered.)

...and a piece of information regarding the relationship between two particular characters and whether it has any possibility of becoming a romantic relationship.


On the contrary, rnh, it sounds like if you did cosplay with platinum hair, it would have to be the type that is EASY to pull off. :twisted:

Further, I think we have the logical answer on most Grayson women's informal attire: Coveralls, with skirts.

dr
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:08 pm

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Um, when will the spoiler grace period end for "Call of Duty?"

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by roseandheather   » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:19 pm

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dreamrider wrote:
roseandheather wrote:What happened to Everard Honeker.

Who holds what Cabinet post in Eloise's government, and what their background is.

What Leslie Montreau looks like, because I need cosplay possibilities and I cannot pull off platinum hair.

What a Grayson woman would wear on a non-formal occasion.

What the heck Tom Theisman got up to that one awful drunken night in his third year at the Academy.

What happens when Sonja Hemphill encounters Shannon Foraker in person for the first time. (That one, at least, I have hope will actually get answered.)

...and a piece of information regarding the relationship between two particular characters and whether it has any possibility of becoming a romantic relationship.


On the contrary, rnh, it sounds like if you did cosplay with platinum hair, it would have to be the type that is EASY to pull off. :twisted:

Further, I think we have the logical answer on most Grayson women's informal attire: Coveralls, with skirts.

dr


If I cosplayed with platinum hair, everyone would want to know WTF a girl who's been mistaken for Iranian was doing dyeing her hair that color.

Leslie Montreau, on the other hand.... :mrgreen:

...or I could just walk around in my "Pritchart for President" t-shirt. :twisted:
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by Vince   » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:16 pm

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cthia wrote:Um, when will the spoiler grace period end for "Call of Duty?"

On davidweber.net, since the book came out at the beginning of October, the rule is the spoiler grace period ends one month after the release of the dead-tree edition (the beginning of November). Other forums (such as Baen's Bar) have different rules.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:33 pm

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roseandheather wrote:
If I cosplayed with platinum hair, everyone would want to know WTF a girl who's been mistaken for Iranian was doing dyeing her hair that color.

Leslie Montreau, on the other hand.... :mrgreen:

...or I could just walk around in my "Pritchart for President" t-shirt. :twisted:

But in the Honorverse there are dark-skinned redheads and dark-skinned blondes with a gamut of hair and eye colors. Personally, I think your Iranian similarities would add credibility to the look.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by Vince   » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:58 pm

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cthia wrote:
Daryl wrote:
Probably half the human beings alive today came from unplanned pregnancies. Call it an accident, contraception failure, earlier than intended, result of a drunken encounter, just what happened; we all seem to handle it well. Obviously those alive were wanted as abortion has always been available either legally or not. If someone is upset about being told that their conception was accidental, then they need to accept it and get on with their lives.



You very well may be correct on the statistics. But I seriously doubt that the majority of that half will ever find out the circumstances of their conception, partly because of Rose's point that unplanned doesn't necessarily mean unwanted; moreover, initially unwanted does not necessarily prevent ultimately loved. I know a couple who wanted only one child, eventually. But didn't plan on the triplets, that broken contraceptive delivered. Their parents often tell the story. What they said they didn't want, is the many boys (me included) that came to court their three beautiful daughters. They were telling this story in High School, but it was no question that these kids were thoroughly loved.

Additionally, an awful parent often manifests itself long before knowledge of being unwanted or unplanned, and that the actual knowledge forthcoming may be the least of the child's problems. In some cases, I can conceive of the knowledge actually being welcome to the child — to explain their horrible parent(s)' actions to be the result of their own problem, and nothing personal.

What's important, is the level of love these kids are given before they are ever told, and the relationship between parent(s) and child — and whether the child was informed with malice; then it possibly becomes a birth defect.

It also depends on the emotional state of the child. It is easier for someone else to suggest to them to move beyond it, but may never understand their emotional or psychological state, or life's circumstances that contributed, or the many hours of trauma subjected upon them by resentful parents.

One thing I think we can all agree upon, is revelation should come from the parent(s) with love, and not from a mean kid in school that heard it thru the grapevine.

I simply cannot dispel my feelings of empathy toward negative assimilation of a child's knowledge that they were an accident, simply because I know the warm feeling it brings absolutely knowing that I was planned and wanted. Both of my parents wanted lots of children. I have 5 brothers and 5 sisters, 11 of us. My mother's only regret was that her obligations prevented her from having more! My father's sentiments were to please his wife, and he often joked that he wouldn't have had it any other way, because eventually we were the ones in trouble, and not him, and that having many kids eventually meant less work for him!

It is just a wonderfully warm feeling knowing that you were both wanted and loved. We all argue over who was my mother's favorite. She was just that loving. However, us boys know for a fact that my sisters were my father's favorite. It is hard not to love those girls. Extraordinarily beautiful and sweet as honey.

Today, outside of the test-tube babies, every child conceived today, is an accident, regardless of whether the parent(s) wanted to have (a) child(ren) at a particular time or at all. This is simply nature, where it can't be predicted or observed when a sperm will successfully fertilize an egg, or if that fertilized egg will successfully implant itself in the uterus (avoiding an ectopic pregnancy or not implanting at all).

This is not true in the Honorverse (or Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosiverse) where in planned pregnancies using uterine replicators, the gametes of both parents are routinely scanned and gene-cleaned before they are combined in a test-tube and then placed in a uterine replicator.

Naturally occurring pregnancies in the Honorverse are also unplanned, just as naturally occurring pregnancies are today.

On Raoul, completely leaving aside any empathetic senses that Honor and presumably Raoul have, he will have the advantage of knowing that although he was unplanned (he was the result of Honor and Hamish engaging in unprotected sexual intercourse), he wasn't unwanted as his parents had him transferred to a uterine replicator (since his mother was going into a hazardous environment for a pregnant woman), was not frozen and kept in storage for later (because he was inconvenient), and not given up for adoption.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:50 pm

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cthia wrote:
Daryl wrote:
Probably half the human beings alive today came from unplanned pregnancies. Call it an accident, contraception failure, earlier than intended, result of a drunken encounter, just what happened; we all seem to handle it well. Obviously those alive were wanted as abortion has always been available either legally or not. If someone is upset about being told that their conception was accidental, then they need to accept it and get on with their lives.



You very well may be correct on the statistics. But I seriously doubt that the majority of that half will ever find out the circumstances of their conception, partly because of Rose's point that unplanned doesn't necessarily mean unwanted; moreover, initially unwanted does not necessarily prevent ultimately loved. I know a couple who wanted only one child, eventually. But didn't plan on the triplets, that broken contraceptive delivered. Their parents often tell the story. What they said they didn't want, is the many boys (me included) that came to court their three beautiful daughters. They were telling this story in High School, but it was no question that these kids were thoroughly loved.

Additionally, an awful parent often manifests itself long before knowledge of being unwanted or unplanned, and that the actual knowledge forthcoming may be the least of the child's problems. In some cases, I can conceive of the knowledge actually being welcome to the child — to explain their horrible parent(s)' actions to be the result of their own problem, and nothing personal.

What's important, is the level of love these kids are given before they are ever told, and the relationship between parent(s) and child — and whether the child was informed with malice; then it possibly becomes a birth defect.

It also depends on the emotional state of the child. It is easier for someone else to suggest to them to move beyond it, but may never understand their emotional or psychological state, or life's circumstances that contributed, or the many hours of trauma subjected upon them by resentful parents.

One thing I think we can all agree upon, is revelation should come from the parent(s) with love, and not from a mean kid in school that heard it thru the grapevine.

I simply cannot dispel my feelings of empathy toward negative assimilation of a child's knowledge that they were an accident, simply because I know the warm feeling it brings absolutely knowing that I was planned and wanted. Both of my parents wanted lots of children. I have 5 brothers and 5 sisters, 11 of us. My mother's only regret was that her obligations prevented her from having more! My father's sentiments were to please his wife, and he often joked that he wouldn't have had it any other way, because eventually we were the ones in trouble, and not him, and that having many kids eventually meant less work for him!

It is just a wonderfully warm feeling knowing that you were both wanted and loved. We all argue over who was my mother's favorite. She was just that loving. However, us boys know for a fact that my sisters were my father's favorite. It is hard not to love those girls. Extraordinarily beautiful and sweet as honey.

Vince wrote:
Today, outside of the test-tube babies, every child conceived today, is an accident, regardless of whether the parent(s) wanted to have (a) child(ren) at a particular time or at all. This is simply nature, where it can't be predicted or observed when a sperm will successfully fertilize an egg, or if that fertilized egg will successfully implant itself in the uterus (avoiding an ectopic pregnancy or not implanting at all).

This is not true in the Honorverse (or Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosiverse) where in planned pregnancies using uterine replicators, the gametes of both parents are routinely scanned and gene-cleaned before they are combined in a test-tube and then placed in a uterine replicator.

Naturally occurring pregnancies in the Honorverse are also unplanned, just as naturally occurring pregnancies are today.

On Raoul, completely leaving aside any empathetic senses that Honor and presumably Raoul have, he will have the advantage of knowing that although he was unplanned (he was the result of Honor and Hamish engaging in unprotected sexual intercourse), he wasn't unwanted as his parents had him transferred to a uterine replicator (since his mother was going into a hazardous environment for a pregnant woman), was not frozen and kept in storage for later (because he was inconvenient), and not given up for adoption.

Vince,
Nice post, though gamites, termites, Bud Lights, are all the same to me.

Raoul certainly wasn't unwanted. Not with the level of love Honor and Hamish shared. Even Emily, in her initial shocked state, recovered quickly and insisted that Raoul could not be aborted. And even though I think Honor would have aborted if Emily said so, does not imply that Honor wouldn't have wished she could keep him.

But all could be a moot point if Honor were ever to maliciously, or insensitively say to Raoul, you were an accident. It's a subjective assimilation, IMO.

And of course, Honor's enemies could attempt a sordid spin on it. Or even Raoul's own enemies, in time. It doesn't matter whether an accidentally conceived child was wanted or loved if the fact of their accidental conception can be used to emotionally or psychologically scar them.

And regardless of what the trio ultimately decided, fact is that Raoul's initial conception was accidental. In fact, "mean girls" could use precise facts against Raoul in his impressionable period with "you were a clerical error!"

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by saber964   » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:15 pm

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If you want unplanned, try this. A friend of mine and his wife were planning to have four kids, they got six in three pregnancies. The first was a boy, the second was identical twin girls and the third was fraternal triplets two identical twin boys and a girl. He told me when his wife informed him that she was carrying triplets, he made an appointment the next day to "take the bullets out of the gun" because he said he didn't want to go for a Grand Slam in fourth time at bat.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by SWM   » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:06 pm

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Cthia, I don't think the effect of being told one was unplanned is as great as you fear. I know, for instance, that I was unplanned, as were my siblings. It really is no big deal, since we all agree that unplanned is not the same as unwanted. Now, it certainly could be spun in a malicious fashion, but only if one did not already know about it. So I think it is perfectly reasonable for Raoul to be told at some point, if for no other reason than to head off any future attempt by malicious persons to blindside him with it later.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:42 pm

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SWM wrote:
Cthia, I don't think the effect of being told one was unplanned is as great as you fear. I know, for instance, that I was unplanned, as were my siblings. It really is no big deal, since we all agree that unplanned is not the same as unwanted. Now, it certainly could be spun in a malicious fashion, but only if one did not already know about it. So I think it is perfectly reasonable for Raoul to be told at some point, if for no other reason than to head off any future attempt by malicious persons to blindside him with it later.

I totally agree. But don't miss the important distinction in semantics. IMO, telling a kid he was an accident carries more of a negative social connotation than telling him he was unplanned. Unplanned may even slip by an unattenive child, whereas the sound of accident would immediately raise his radar. And I would assume that a resentful parent would consciously choose to use "accident" as the preferred description instead of "unplanned" if malicious intent is desired.

If you are specifically trying to hurt your child, you wouldn't elect to scream "YOU WERE UNPLANNED." Rather, you would scream "YOU WERE AN ACCIDENT!"

Also, SWM, I don't necessarily think it would hurt either. What I'm saying is it isn't something one should say to a child because of possible emotional trauma. A parent just shouldn't use the term accident. Unplanned is more ... muted. IMO.

Edit:
Of course I could be wrong, but Hollywood and society seems to have specifically turned "accident" into a euphemism for unwanted. And you should never tell a child they were/are unwanted. MHO

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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