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| USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000): The Future Is Getting Closer | |
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by 61Cygni
» Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:50 pm
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61Cygni
Posts: 162
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Found this pictorial article about the USS Zumwalt, the first of the 3-ship DDG-1000 class. LOTS of photos of the almost-complete ship.
Remember, this is classed as a destroyer--a 16,000 ton destroyer. With 155mm guns it ought to be called a light cruiser, except it's bigger than WWII cruisers.  There is also a recent article about how the ship's gas turbines are being prepared for startup. It's an all-electric ship, even the engines are electric. Supposed to have enough juice to operate...rail guns and directed-energy weapons. No word yet on grav guns, pulsers or plasma cannons.  |
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| And How $Much$ Will They Cost? | |
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by HB of CJ
» Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:02 pm
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HB of CJ
Posts: 707
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Personal rant here. Just me. Again the admirals are trying to build too big and too expensive. These magnificent ships are just going to sink fast, deep and with all hands, along with the mega carriers we do not want or need anymore.
Seems they still want to fight the last world war and not look forward, but instead backwards. What the USN needs, (in my humble opinion) are many cheap small ships. We again are putting way too few expensive eggs into one basket. Does the USA really need such expensive armed forces, including the future USN? The answer is obviously "YES", but not the kind and type all the brass seem to want. We are going to have to get smaller, cheaper and much smarter. HB of CJ (old coot) Cm. |
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| Re: USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000): The Future Is Getting Closer | |
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by 61Cygni
» Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:21 pm
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61Cygni
Posts: 162
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Welcome to the present world of the US military, where everything has to be gold-plated uber-tech (F-22 and F-35 anyone?)
 T think these ships are just testbeds for all the new technology that was developed for them, and don't see them being actually used all that much. If anything, it will probably be for certain types of special forces insertions--the ships have a mini boat well in the stern that holds two RHIBs (+1 stowed overhead) and planned quarters for 12 or so special forces types. |
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| Re: USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000): The Future Is Getting Closer | |
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by Fireflair
» Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:02 pm
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Fireflair
Posts: 591
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A few, well more then a few now, the Navy took possession of a laser prototype. They've also received several prototype designs for rail guns.
The problems with both are massive. A big one is power draw. And unfortunately the continuously available power from gas turbines over the long haul just isn't sufficient. 25MW of power is nothing to sneeze at. Not that they can't generate the juice, but that in order to do so they'd burn too much fuel, too quickly. Better to have a nuclear vessel, but that would up building cost and the size of the ship. Though we have had CGN's before. Not necessarily a problem, but a question I have, is what is the use for the laser systems? That is strictly limited by line of sight. As noted earlier, the notion of ship to ship fighting in today's threat environment is minimal. There are better systems for close in defense. The CIWS comes to mind, though I understand that is being phased out. Word was, it wasn't used often enough to justify it's continued employment. I've seen the rail-gun test units fired while I was stationed in Norfolk. It was impressive, to say the least. But the tech weenies I spoke with said they had serious issues to resolve. Cooling, for one, though they thought they had that problem licked. Another was degradation of the rails from the elements. Turns out salt water spray and salty sea air aren't good for rail-guns. Who knew? The last thing that was mentioned to me, at the time, was that there were residual magnetism issues that made an auto-loading system problematic. |
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| That Plus Rail Gun Electro Magnetic Discharge Signature? | |
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by HB of CJ
» Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:19 pm
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HB of CJ
Posts: 707
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Do rail guns produce a pesky naggy electro magnetic discharge signature? How far away could this be detected by low teck cheap bad guy opponent counter measures? Same question regarding the magnetic catapults on the coming super mega ultra big target sink fast over priced aircraft carriers?
Did not Commander-then Captain of engineering, (such a rank on a navy ship!) Montgomery Scott once say, (or will say) "The more fancy you make the plumbing ... the easier it is to clog up the pipes!" (The Search For Spock) Kinda like the 14 year old kid who with $50 grand defeated all known stealth aircraft technology ... with optics. HB of CJ (old coot) Cm. |
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| Re: USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000): The Future Is Getting Closer | |
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by Thucydides
» Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:48 pm
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Thucydides
Posts: 689
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Zumwalt seems to be the epitome of the idea that hardware reaches perfection just before it becomes obsolete.
Metal body armour reached such a state of perfection just before it was swept from the battlefield by personal firearms. The horse cavalry sabre reached perfection in 1912. We can go on and on. Surface warships are important parts of the arsenal because they are both mobile and can maintain presence, so the idea of a Navy will not go away. The idea that the Navy needs to be built around massive surface combatants is reaching the limits of practicality (few people can afford to build large combatants, and many inexpensive threats exist against them). I can see small submarines carrying vertical launch bays with racks of anti ship and land attack missiles, small carriers with fleets of drone, UAV and UCAV's, ships resembling monitors (to fire long range railgun projectiles) and arsenal ships (with vast loads of new, inexpensive missiles) to provide cover from air and missile attack, as well as the ability to bombard shore targets, depending on their load out. Laser weapons and other energy weapons will become part of the fleet, but I suspect they will really take the form of UCAV's patrolling above the fleet using extended lines of sight to maximize the range the laser weapons can engage. The 21rst century fleet will be a much different beast indeed. |
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| Re: USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000): The Future Is Getting Closer | |
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by niethil
» Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:05 pm
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niethil
Posts: 151
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Nope ! Wait, you mean those are actually meant to fly ? They are not wooden models to make the Airforce bases look good ? -------------
'Oh, oh' he said in English. Evidently, he had completely mastered that language. |
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| Re: USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000): The Future Is Getting Closer | |
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by Dilandu
» Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:11 pm
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Dilandu
Posts: 2541
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Well, the "Zumwalt", as i recall, was proposed as part of 1990th naval doctrine - that assumed that the US navy naval superiority is guaranteed for decades and the main war that it would participate would be the small-scale warfare with a little chanse of naval battle but the lot of coastal operations.
The DDG-1000-class should be a perfect coastal operation ships; heavy stealth, with a perfect medium-range defense and effective weapons for troop support and defense of the LCS units. But... the China navy appeared to have a lot of more naval ambitions that US navy assumed in 1991. So, the whole class of specialised coastal support destroyers was considered unnesessary. Do not think that I consider "Zumwalt" as a useless or ineffective ships. I think, that she would be really valuable part of any coastal operation that US navy may participate in. ------------------------------
Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave, Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave. (Red Army lyrics from 1945) |
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| Re: That Plus Rail Gun Electro Magnetic Discharge Signature? | |
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by Dilandu
» Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:15 pm
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Dilandu
Posts: 2541
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Try to sunk even one, shall you? The supercarriers are pretty hard to sunk or disable; they simply TOO BIG and too well protected. Even the penetrate of the carrier air group would be a hard work. It's possible, but it is really hard. To sunk the supercarrier... well, the Soviet Navy - with his best-of-the-kind anti-ship missiles and supersonic naval missile-armed bombers and pretty shy missile armed submarines - eventually desided the best way to deal with supercarrier is to put against him another supercarrier.  ------------------------------
Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave, Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave. (Red Army lyrics from 1945) |
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| Re: USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000): The Future Is Getting Closer | |
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by HB of CJ
» Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:09 pm
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HB of CJ
Posts: 707
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Too big, too expensive. The Forrest-Fire and the Big E were completely disabled by some cheap, (relatively speaking) ordnance going off. We can and must make stuff, (including navy ships) smaller, cheaper and better.
Corvettes, Frigates, Destroyers and perhaps a few Cruisers. A smaller aircraft carrier not displacing more than 25,000 tons max. The smallest stuff just big enough to be sea worthy. Probably, (maybe) using gas turbines. Jet drives. High speed low drag catamaran hulls. Air foils on both ends because the ship at burst max speed needs them. Small crews. Stainless steel hulls. Production line manufacture. Perhaps 1000 ships in total? Same goes for the other USA military branches. The next bunch of wars are going to be completely different. A computer with a good hacker will be worth a dozen ships. Economic war. Computer wars. Ecological wars. Currency wars. Trade wars. Social wars. Unless the USA can adapt to changing current and future world conditions, we just may LOSE the next big war. No second place winners. Adapt or die. Our turn may be next. Personnel rant. HB of CJ (old coot) Cm. |
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