The Moon and the Lizard.

kbus888 wrote:=2014/10/13=
Thank you RFC for the tides information.

As a matter of interest (interest to me anyhow) I and my family actually saw the reverse flow of the St John river
in New Brunswick on our trip around the eastern coast.

I was impressed to see the darned river flowing the wrong way

That was in 1976, actually ...

Editted 1 time for typos corrections

R
.

The Maumee River in Ohio regularly reverses flow, though tides have little to do with it. When a strong wind blows out of the north or east, Lake Erie will be pushed into Maumee bay and funneled into the river, causing the river to rise all the way to the first dam in Grand Rapids (OH). It's odd watching on a stormy day, you can see flotsom be pushed back and forth, up and down the river for sometimes miles, as the winds strengthen and ebb.

=2014/10/13=

Neat !!!

Thanks for the info.

I'll look for it if I'm ever in the neighbourhood !!

R
.

Theemile wrote:

kbus888 wrote:=2014/10/13=
Thank you RFC for the tides information.

As a matter of interest (interest to me anyhow) I and my family actually saw the reverse flow of the St John river
in New Brunswick on our trip around the eastern coast.

I was impressed to see the darned river flowing the wrong way

That was in 1976, actually ...

Editted 1 time for typos corrections

R
.

The Maumee River in Ohio regularly reverses flow, though tides have little to do with it. When a strong wind blows out of the north or east, Lake Erie will be pushed into Maumee bay and funneled into the river, causing the river to rise all the way to the first dam in Grand Rapids (OH). It's odd watching on a stormy day, you can see flotsom be pushed back and forth, up and down the river for sometimes miles, as the winds strengthen and ebb.

Our esteemed LauftFurSellerie (see Babelfish) has given us a clue, to wit:

"There is actually a point in HFQ where this entire issue of tides and tidal ranges is addressed and plays a major role in the action. Further than that deponent saith no more."

We don't know whether he is referring to a tidal rip issue, or a varying water depth issue, but in either case, we can speculate a little (as always).

IF it's a tidal rip issue, the there are a limited number of places where a large body of water is connected to the major oceans by a narrow channel or river. The most likely that come to mind are the Zion river, between Lake Pei and Temple Bay, the Shweimouth Passage, between Shwei Bay and the Gulf of Dohlar, the Howard Passage, between the Gulf of Jahras and the Gulf of Mathyas, the narrow channel between Sandfish Bay and Tabard Reach, and the narrow channel between the Mantorah & Transhar Bays and the Gulf of Tarot.

IF it's a water depth issue, we have a little less to go on. The Safehold map is not a nautical chart, with indications of water depth. The only clews relating to depth are the places marked in grey where "banks" or "shoals" are located. According to the map, there are some banks and shoals around Claw Island, the Whale Island Shoal and the Dohlar Bank in the Gulf of Dohlar, some shoals around Dragon Island and Lizard Island, some Shoals in Gorath Bay, some shoals and banks around Scrabble Sound, in the Gulf of Mathyas, and what looks like some shoals or banks at the entrance to Mantorah Bay from the Gulf of Tarot. There may be other areas where the water depth may be an issue, but they're not marked on the map yet.

It's not much, but this at least gives us some locations where some of the action in HFQ may take place.

Let The Speculation Begin!

Philip Stanley

Philip Stanley wrote:Our esteemed LauftFurSellerie (see Babelfish) has given us a clue, to wit:

Rent voor Selderij wrote:"There is actually a point in HFQ where this entire issue of tides and tidal ranges is addressed and plays a major role in the action. Further than that deponent saith no more."

We don't know whether he is referring to a tidal rip issue, or a varying water depth issue, but in either case, we can speculate a little (as always).

IF it's a tidal rip issue, the there are a limited number of places where a large body of water is connected to the major oceans by a narrow channel or river. The most likely that come to mind are the Zion river, between Lake Pei and Temple Bay, the Shweimouth Passage, between Shwei Bay and the Gulf of Dohlar, the Howard Passage, between the Gulf of Jahras and the Gulf of Mathyas, the narrow channel between Sandfish Bay and Tabard Reach, and the narrow channel between the Mantorah & Transhar Bays and the Gulf of Tarot.

IF it's a water depth issue, we have a little less to go on. The Safehold map is not a nautical chart, with indications of water depth. The only clews relating to depth are the places marked in grey where "banks" or "shoals" are located. According to the map, there are some banks and shoals around Claw Island, the Whale Island Shoal and the Dohlar Bank in the Gulf of Dohlar, some shoals around Dragon Island and Lizard Island, some Shoals in Gorath Bay, some shoals and banks around Scrabble Sound, in the Gulf of Mathyas, and what looks like some shoals or banks at the entrance to Mantorah Bay from the Gulf of Tarot. There may be other areas where the water depth may be an issue, but they're not marked on the map yet.

It's not much, but this at least gives us some locations where some of the action in HFQ may take place.

Let The Speculation Begin!

Philip Stanley

I think the worst places on Earth for tidal current through small straights are Gibraltar and Cape Horn. And in both places they pose no real problem.

Shoals are another matter. They can be very tricky and local pilots are essential to safely navigate them. The Gulf of Dohlar and Gorath Bay can be the theater where the shoals and the tide play a major role.

But tidal ranges are most problematic for seaports on river estuaries that funnel the tide into a smaller and smaller river mouth, like London and Liverpool. The map suggest that Silk Town is such a seaport.
My vote goes to The Battle of Silkiah Bay to be the action hinted at by our celery loving friend.

Hi Philip Stanley,

Thanks very much for an excellent and very interesting analysis; kudos.

My vote is the Zion river, when the steam landing craft make their move up the river to the city, if there's a favorable tidal shift that night that reduces the current to be overcome and makes controlling the landing craft much easier, great!

This might confirm an assault on Zion and the temple.

The next possibility might be Gorath Bay with all its shoals that could catch the unwary, even the ICN, though I expect the ironclads could tow ships off the shoals if not before.

L

Philip Stanley wrote:Our esteemed LauftFurSellerie (see Babelfish) has given us a clue, to wit:

"There is actually a point in HFQ where this entire issue of tides and tidal ranges is addressed and plays a major role in the action. Further than that deponent saith no more."

We don't know whether he is referring to a tidal rip issue, or a varying water depth issue, but in either case, we can speculate a little (as always).

IF it's a tidal rip issue, the there are a limited number of places where a large body of water is connected to the major oceans by a narrow channel or river. The most likely that come to mind are the Zion river, between Lake Pei and Temple Bay, the Shweimouth Passage, between Shwei Bay and the Gulf of Dohlar, the Howard Passage, between the Gulf of Jahras and the Gulf of Mathyas, the narrow channel between Sandfish Bay and Tabard Reach, and the narrow channel between the Mantorah & Transhar Bays and the Gulf of Tarot.

IF it's a water depth issue, we have a little less to go on. The Safehold map is not a nautical chart, with indications of water depth. The only clews relating to depth are the places marked in grey where "banks" or "shoals" are located. According to the map, there are some banks and shoals around Claw Island, the Whale Island Shoal and the Dohlar Bank in the Gulf of Dohlar, some shoals around Dragon Island and Lizard Island, some Shoals in Gorath Bay, some shoals and banks around Scrabble Sound, in the Gulf of Mathyas, and what looks like some shoals or banks at the entrance to Mantorah Bay from the Gulf of Tarot. There may be other areas where the water depth may be an issue, but they're not marked on the map yet.

It's not much, but this at least gives us some locations where some of the action in HFQ may take place.

Let The Speculation Begin!

Philip Stanley

runsforcelery wrote:

Yes, tides exist on Howell Bay.

So, much like the Earth, Safehold has an unusually large moon. Did that occur naturally? Or was it towed into place by the terraforming crew?

~Tonto

Many scientists think the large moon is necessary to protect the planet from meteors by intercepting most of them before they strike the planet, and thus allowing life to develop beyond pond scum Thus given the large complex life native to Safehold a large moon is likely natural.

Poker

Tonto Silerheels wrote:runsforcelery wrote:

Yes, tides exist on Howell Bay.

So, much like the Earth, Safehold has an unusually large moon. Did that occur naturally? Or was it towed into place by the terraforming crew?

~Tonto

Tanstaafl wrote:
The place I expect strong tidal effects is at Silk Town. At the end of a funnel after a large stretch of open ocean.

But why would there be any action at Silt Town?

Silkiah suffers under de facto Desnairian occupation, given the imprimatur of the corrupt Temple! Silkiah yearns for freedom! She needs but the outstretched hand of Charis and Siddermark to lift the yoke of oppression!

FREE SILKIAH!

IIRC there is one theory that a massive moon (or possibly moons) prevent rapid changes (over geological time) in how a planet's axis points.

If a planet's axis shifts greatly, rapid changes in climate would prevent complex life from developing (at least land based life).

From what I remember reading some people disliked the idea that a large moon is necessary for complex life to develop.

It seems that they dislike the idea that Earth is "something special" in the universe.

pokermind wrote:Many scientists think the large moon is necessary to protect the planet from meteors by intercepting most of them before they strike the planet, and thus allowing life to develop beyond pond scum Thus given the large complex life native to Safehold a large moon is likely natural.

Poker

Tonto Silerheels wrote:runsforcelery wrote:

Yes, tides exist on Howell Bay.

So, much like the Earth, Safehold has an unusually large moon. Did that occur naturally? Or was it towed into place by the terraforming crew?

~Tonto

Well, the debate (as normal in science) goes on.

http://www.astrobio.net/news-exclusive/ ... ess-earth/

DrakBibliophile wrote:IIRC there is one theory that a massive moon (or possibly moons) prevent rapid changes (over geological time) in how a planet's axis points.

If a planet's axis shifts greatly, rapid changes in climate would prevent complex life from developing (at least land based life).

From what I remember reading some people disliked the idea that a large moon is necessary for complex life to develop.

It seems that they dislike the idea that Earth is "something special" in the universe.

pokermind wrote:Many scientists think the large moon is necessary to protect the planet from meteors by intercepting most of them before they strike the planet, and thus allowing life to develop beyond pond scum Thus given the large complex life native to Safehold a large moon is likely natural.

Poker