Manticoran Armament

Dafmeister wrote:I believe the capacitor-powered missiles were bigger than their fusion successors, so they may not fit into the same launchers.

As I pointed out earlier, that only applies within classes of missiles -- cruiser-weight capacitor missiles probably aren't any bigger than capital-weight fusion missiles.

Dafmeister wrote:I believe the capacitor-powered missiles were bigger than their fusion successors, so they may not fit into the same launchers.

Then there is the question as to why there would be a cache of capacitor powered missiles handy, how you would interface between the fusion plant and the capacitors... Not a very likely sounding scenario. I think that if you've fired off all your fusion powered missiles and still need more firepower, it's probably time to get out of Dodge if you still can.

Don

n7axw wrote:Then there is the question as to why there would be a cache of capacitor powered missiles handy, how you would interface between the fusion plant and the capacitors...

I'd suggest superconducting cables myself.

n7axw wrote:Then there is the question as to why there would be a cache of capacitor powered missiles handy,

There are probably caches of outdated and obsolete missiles all over the haven sector. They wouldn't be worth shipping back home and not worth the hassle of destroying them. There may even be some backwater where old, obsolete warship are stationed where old missiles are still at the front of the armory.

n7axw wrote:how you would interface between the fusion plant and the capacitors...

kzt wrote:I'd suggest superconducting cables myself.

Like I said earlier, charging a capacitor from a pod's on board fusion reactor would be a trivial tech challenge. Far simpler than kick-starting a
fusion missile from a pod for capacitor-missiles.

n7axw wrote:Not a very likely sounding scenario. I think that if you've fired off all your fusion powered missiles and still need more firepower, it's probably time to get out of Dodge if you still can.

It's not a very likely scenario, but since it would be a trivial tech challenge to tuck a super-conductiong cable or ten into a Mk17 series pod, to permit the remote possibility of using capacitor-missiles, would be pocket change in the Naval Budget.

There must be power cables to each launch tube in the pod already, as the missiles' fusion reactors need power to start the fusion reaction in the first place. However, I suspect that the power loads for prepping a capacitor missile are greater. I'm not a physicist or engineer, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that charging a missile’s capacitor ring for a full nine-minute flight, plus EW capability, will require more power than initialising a self-sustaining fusion reaction to power that flight.

Also, if I remember rightly, capacitor missile pods charged their missiles from the ship’s power systems during the launch cycle rather than from internal power. I suspect the power supply connectors in the launch tubes are also different between capacitor and fusion missiles, especially if I’m right that fusion missiles require less initial power. If I’m right on those points, then you’d have to refit the pod’s whole power-supply system to accommodate capacitor missiles.

Dafmeister wrote:There must be power cables to each launch tube in the pod already, as the missiles' fusion reactors need power to start the fusion reaction in the first place. However, I suspect that the power loads for prepping a capacitor missile are greater. I'm not a physicist or engineer, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that charging a missile’s capacitor ring for a full nine-minute flight, plus EW capability, will require more power than initialising a self-sustaining fusion reaction to power that flight.

Also, if I remember rightly, capacitor missile pods charged their missiles from the ship’s power systems during the launch cycle rather than from internal power. I suspect the power supply connectors in the launch tubes are also different between capacitor and fusion missiles, especially if I’m right that fusion missiles require less initial power. If I’m right on those points, then you’d have to refit the pod’s whole power-supply system to accommodate capacitor missiles.

Fusion reactors require plasma conduits to start the reactors - however, David has also said in the recent past that his capacitors are plasma capacitors, not our current definition of them... However, we know that Capacitors are charged in the magazines and Fusion missiles are iniatated in the shielded tube feeds - so who knows...

Weird Harold wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:I believe the capacitor-powered missiles were bigger than their fusion successors, so they may not fit into the same launchers.

As I pointed out earlier, that only applies within classes of missiles -- cruiser-weight capacitor missiles probably aren't any bigger than capital-weight fusion missiles.

The capacitor MDMs were significantly larger than Fusion MDMs (The fusion reactor is larger than 1 capacitor stack but smaller than 2 - so 3 is way out)

The Mk 19 Capital SDM is 130 Tons, the Mk 27 capitol SDM dropped to 120 Tons in ~1910. So a Mk 23 must mass more than 120 Tons to have the same mk 27 warhead, 3 Mk27 drives and a fusion reactor larger than 1 Mk 27 capacitor stack.

But a Mk 13 cruiser weight missile masses 78 tons - much smaller than a Mk 23. Ditto on the 84 ton Mk 14 EDM or the 94 ton Mk 16 DDM.

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:Then there is the question as to why there would be a cache of capacitor powered missiles handy,

There are probably caches of outdated and obsolete missiles all over the haven sector. They wouldn't be worth shipping back home and not worth the hassle of destroying them. There may even be some backwater where old, obsolete warship are stationed where old missiles are still at the front of the armory.

n7axw wrote:how you would interface between the fusion plant and the capacitors...

kzt wrote:I'd suggest superconducting cables myself.

Like I said earlier, charging a capacitor from a pod's on board fusion reactor would be a trivial tech challenge. Far simpler than kick-starting a
fusion missile from a pod for capacitor-missiles.

n7axw wrote:Not a very likely sounding scenario. I think that if you've fired off all your fusion powered missiles and still need more firepower, it's probably time to get out of Dodge if you still can.

It's not a very likely scenario, but since it would be a trivial tech challenge to tuck a super-conductiong cable or ten into a Mk17 series pod, to permit the remote possibility of using capacitor-missiles, would be pocket change in the Naval Budget.

Making plans and building support to field expedient rearm your podlayers with shorter ranged and cruiser weight missiles? I just don't see that as likely.

That would be like Iowa-class battleships carrying storerooms of sabot sleeves; just in case they ran out of 16" rounds and needed to fire 8" cruiser shells as sub-caliber shells.
Technically possible, but not worth the trouble. You couldn't use the resulting kludge against other first line ships. Sure you could misuse your capital ship to beat up on cruisers, or mission kill obsolete Dreadnaughts (but likely not kill them because the warheads are too lightweight), but designers normally don't design things to encourage that misuse. (The RMN is in the odd situation where their current opponent doesn't have anything but obsolete SD/DNs)

Jonathan_S wrote:That would be like Iowa-class battleships carrying storerooms of sabot sleeves; just in case they ran out of 16" rounds and needed to fire 8" cruiser shells as sub-caliber shells.

That's what the Mk 16 pods are.

Weird Harold wrote:It's not a very likely scenario, but since it would be a trivial tech challenge to tuck a super-conductiong cable or ten into a Mk17 series pod, to permit the remote possibility of using capacitor-missiles, would be pocket change in the Naval Budget.

Even if those cables are only a couple bucks a missile extra, given the vast number of pods being built that's millions of dollars spent on them. Just to cover the outside chance that you'd need to field reload a fusion capital missile pod with obsolete capacitor powered single drive cruiser missiles.

Collectively that would be a lot of money that you'd get much better return on if spent elsewhere within military procurement. (Towards more pods, or more ammo colliers, or personnel costs).

kzt wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:That would be like Iowa-class battleships carrying storerooms of sabot sleeves; just in case they ran out of 16" rounds and needed to fire 8" cruiser shells as sub-caliber shells.

That's what the Mk 16 pods are.

Which cruisers (well battlecruisers) carry and SD(P)s don't. (No reason they couldn't; but as a matter of policy they don't and I don't see a pressing reason for them to do so)


Also I'd say the Mk16 is probably a bit more analogous to the superheavy 12" shell the Alaska-class large cruisers carried than than 8" shell the Baltimore or Des Moines-class heavy cruisers.

It is a dual drive, fusion powered missile, with the ECM power and range that implies. Much more capable than the Mk 14 ERMs that certain people have been playing Devil's Advocate for field expedient fitting into fusion missile pods. (But hey, if you want to argue that some SD(P)s should loaded to the gills with pods of Mk16s and sent to beat up on SLN BCs and below, advocate away . Still seems a bit of a misuse of resources, but at least it's not wasting money on pod mods that are wildly unlikely to ever be used)