Ebola Virus

DDHv wrote:News:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-0 ... gives-clue

Unfortunately the gentleman in Dallas died this morning of Ebola.

Isn't it nice to know someone has a brain and actually uses it?

Yah. One food place I talked to has been bleaching their menus for years. I congratulated them, no harm encouraging those who do well.

http://qz.com/275101/am-i-safe-is-the-w ... on-to-ask/

Ouch! but so true!

DDHv wrote:

Isn't it nice to know someone has a brain and actually uses it?

Yah. One food place I talked to has been bleaching their menus for years. I congratulated them, no harm encouraging those who do well.

http://qz.com/275101/am-i-safe-is-the-w ... on-to-ask/

Ouch! but so true!

See the story on Spain and Ebola and what went wrong at http://www.thedailybeast.com on their world page, sometimes up on the home page, too. This is why I do not trust the medical community, let alone governments, in the event of any health crisis. Utter and complete incompetence.

Northstar wrote:
See the story on Spain and Ebola and what went wrong at http://www.thedailybeast.com on their world page, sometimes up on the home page, too. This is why I do not trust the medical community, let alone governments, in the event of any health crisis. Utter and complete incompetence.

It's also an area where there is very likely to be human error. Biohazard procedures must be followed perfectly every single time. It's very easy and very human to make mistakes especially when tired or distracted etc. How many people are perfect every single time? Sooner or later even the best of us will make a mistake.

biochem wrote:

Northstar wrote:
See the story on Spain and Ebola and what went wrong at http://www.thedailybeast.com on their world page, sometimes up on the home page, too. This is why I do not trust the medical community, let alone governments, in the event of any health crisis. Utter and complete incompetence.

It's also an area where there is very likely to be human error. Biohazard procedures must be followed perfectly every single time. It's very easy and very human to make mistakes especially when tired or distracted etc. How many people are perfect every single time? Sooner or later even the best of us will make a mistake.

Oh absolutely. But a bug like Ebola has no forgiveness.

She may -or may not- have touched her face with a contaminated glove. Why her face was exposed before that glove got rinsed in bleach, along with the rest of her gear is the tragic question. She called her doctor and told him she'd been treating the Ebola priest who had died and now was feeling unwell and had a temp. He told her to take two aspirin. argh.

Well, nothing made her go out -knowing she was ill and feverish- and risk spreading something around to her husband, friends, various strangers and who knows who as she was very out and about for days. I do not understand that. Nor her doctor's cavalier attitude, nor the hospital where she worked telling her when she tells them she is ill to go to the emergency room of another hospital... where she sat in the waiting room for hours while breaking out in Ebola fever sweat.... This is what I mean. Layers and layers of multiple persons who should know better doing the absolutely stupidest thing. It is tragic all around.

And, it turns out her hospital had only level 2 containment equipment rather than the level 4 needed for Ebola. They should not have been treating Ebola patients to begin with.That was not her decision. That was someone else's utter incompetence, to join all the other examples of it there by multiple medically trained persons. I hope others remain well. Very much. If they do Spain will have dodged a horrible bullet.

But ... are the medical folks in assorted countries trying to let this beast loose on the world?

There is no reasoning with a level 4 virus, no do overs. It cuts no one any slack at all for any reason. It's goal is to spread itself.

I am not much for jumping at shadows, I've been one of the ones here saying it is unlikely to go wild around the world as long as it remains fluids borne, but the... what is it? Refusal? Inability? Of one medical person after another to understand it is not business as usual with this thing.. that is what is scary. That is what is amplifying the dangers this thing poses... everywhere.

I am not much for jumping at shadows, I've been one of the ones here saying it is unlikely to go wild around the world as long as it remains fluids borne, but the... what is it? Refusal? Inability? Of one medical person after another to understand it is not business as usual with this thing.. that is what is scary. That is what is amplifying the dangers this thing poses... everywhere.

Shortages happen in a crisis. Getting stuff that can be used if there is no crisis now prevents panic later. Saw a post somewhere on storage in limited spaces: under the bed, shelf in unused space at closet top, stack boxes and cover with a tablecloth, etc.

Right now stuff is cheap, and affordable if you buy a little at a time regularly.

DDHv wrote:

I am not much for jumping at shadows, I've been one of the ones here saying it is unlikely to go wild around the world as long as it remains fluids borne, but the... what is it? Refusal? Inability? Of one medical person after another to understand it is not business as usual with this thing.. that is what is scary. That is what is amplifying the dangers this thing poses... everywhere.

Shortages happen in a crisis. Getting stuff that can be used if there is no crisis now prevents panic later. Saw a post somewhere on storage in limited spaces: under the bed, shelf in unused space at closet top, stack boxes and cover with a tablecloth, etc.

Right now stuff is cheap, and affordable if you buy a little at a time regularly.

Well, yes, but as much as I am all for folks having some supplies for this and that, kind of just on general Boy Scout Be Prepared type principles, I really really doubt Ebola is going to be a pandemic here. Far as we know it takes direct contact with body fluids of an infectious person. Even in The Hot Zone, which rather emphasizes the dangers, a terminal Ebola patient is wandering about a major city there, I forget which it's been awhile since I read it, and no one gets sick from him wandering about. Thank goodness. If it could be passed by sick persons wandering around, Africa would be a graveyard and it would be spreading like wildfire worldwide. This is NOT happening. Again, thank goodness.

Even so that nurse, or any infectious bug type sick person wandering about, is just irresponsible. If you are sick with a bug, stay home. Certainly do not do stuff that is optional. I mean really. It's just plain rude and thoughtless to wander around with a bug. When you know you've been in contact with a lethal disease and you wander around ill...!!! What is wrong with this picture?

I see this more as a wakeup call for the cavalier habits of too many hospitals and medical people, and the rest of us also, to be given a makeover and one to everyone that crap can happen and can happen fast and with possibly little to no warning so be situationally aware without having a hairtrigger panic button. And, yes, get yourself ready to take care of yourself and your family for awhile. Don't trust the government to do it for you. eh. Do you really really think they will or even can do that? Really?

If you must go to work sick with a bug please be aware you are contagious. Take your own coffee, don't touch the machine. Ditto vending machines or other surfaces other people will touch. Sneeze and cough into your sleeve not on your coworkers. Have hand sanitizer and wipes and use them. Be aware of this stuff and be a responsible adult and make an effort not to infect others. This should be basic common courtesy and common sense 101. Should be.

I would like the custom of shaking hands to be ended. It is unhygienic in the extreme, Some sort of courteous nod of the head or some such, please, instead.

Anybody remember the old SportsCenter shtick wherein they cannot figure out how this bug has spread all over the building... as they go around sneezing and coughing on each other and everything, shaking hands and on and on through various disease spreading behaviors?

I looked on the CDC site. They are coy about how many people in the USA die of Influenza every year. They give a range of 3,000 to 49,000. Not what I'd call precise. Doctors and hospitals do not have to report flu deaths. ???!!! Never mind it kills more folks here than any other contagious disease -maybe except HIV.

My point is how many people have the flu and go out anyway, completely ignoring the reality that this is a disease that can and does kill an awful lot of people in America every year. Imagine if 3,000 people had died here this year of Ebola... think we'd be reacting? How about the high end of flu? 49,000 have died.

I am not saying freakout about the flu. I'm saying be careful about spreading it. Maybe it is just a pain in the tookus to you but it kills a lot of people. Every year. Don't spread it around like it's just a cold. It is, in fact, one of the most lethal diseases in human history. And far more dangerous here in America than Ebola is likely ever to be.

The last major killing pandemic here in America was... The Great Influenza of 1918, worldwide estimated to have killed 50 million people, give or take. Ebola ain't in the same universe... and let's hope it never is.

I looked on the CDC site. They are coy about how many people in the USA die of Influenza every year. They give a range of 3,000 to 49,000. Not what I'd call precise. Doctors and hospitals do not have to report flu deaths. ???!!! Never mind it kills more folks here than any other contagious disease -maybe except HIV.

Our healthcare system is so decentralized that it is hard to determine proper statistics for a large number of things. I'm not a big fan of national health systems, but one HUGE advantage that they have is that they have far far more accurate statistics.

biochem wrote:

I looked on the CDC site. They are coy about how many people in the USA die of Influenza every year. They give a range of 3,000 to 49,000. Not what I'd call precise. Doctors and hospitals do not have to report flu deaths. ???!!! Never mind it kills more folks here than any other contagious disease -maybe except HIV.

Our healthcare system is so decentralized that it is hard to determine proper statistics for a large number of things. I'm not a big fan of national health systems, but one HUGE advantage that they have is that they have far far more accurate statistics.

Yeah. But argh. In this age of click on a computer page and your data is recorded, would it really be so onerous for the CDC to have a reporting site and doctors to click on it how many of what died that day? argh, just argh.

Northstar wrote:

biochem wrote:
Yeah. But argh. In this age of click on a computer page and your data is recorded, would it really be so onerous for the CDC to have a reporting site and doctors to click on it how many of what died that day? argh, just argh.

The problem is the human factor. Since it is decentralized, they have to choose to do it and most feel their time is better spent elsewhere. Due to all the compliance burdens and lawsuit prevention, they are now spending 1/4 of their time on paperwork. I suppose they feel this is just one more thing taking time away from face to face time with patients.

And it's not just deaths, some of the really interesting data coming out of Europe is on co-morbidities (diseases that occur together in the same patient). It is providing some really interesting research hypothesis around disease relationships: Disease 1 causes/increases the risk of disease 2, disease 1 and disease 2 have the same underlying cause/risk (obesity for example). Some of those relationships have been known for years, other have been surprises. Big data has been very useful in this respect. For example People with Disease 1 have a 10x greater chance of disease 2 than a matched control group. That matched control group is really key, a lot of wild goose chases have been started by the use of poor control groups and the big data in the European databases when used properly allows excellent matching.