Lacöon I

Carl wrote:You also might want to go back and read the back end of ART. Kingsford and his analyst make it clear that the SLN thinks the best strategy is to raid Manticores commerce, including neutral's that switch sides. Obviously given his messan connection we can't assume the analysts conclusions about the GA's returning the favor are 100% true, but i don't see any reason they wouldn't or shouldn't either. Basically you can limit your business to anything that doesn't help the SL/GA or you can get pounded flat, only the GA once it gets missile production moving again will be able to make that stick a lot more of the time.

Your analysis has got a few holes in it. The analyst is a MAlign mole, and, while the recommendation will undoubtedly weaken Manticore and allies, its primary covert objective is to pull ships from the chronically understrength Frontier Fleet just when they're needed to keep the hobnailed boot on the neck of restive protectorate planets and entire sectors that are ready to rebel.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Carl wrote:The problem with trying to do that is you've got all these (little) neutral 3rd parties and unless you cut off trade without anyone who isn't a pretty firm ally it's almost impossible to block the flow the trade back to your enemy.

Sure you can blackball neutral #1 if they trade directly with your enemy, but they'll trade with neutral #2, who might trade with neutral #3 who will finally trade with a SL world or shipping line. In WWI and II simple geography was able to help the Allies largely choke of neutral trade to their enemies because they largely surrounded them and so the war situation allowed them to pretty effectively blockage shipments.

But they had to actively blockade trade to Germany. They'd have had almost no luck preventing it with economic sanctions or black listing if a safe reliable trade route had existed. (Neutral Sweden traded with Germany throughout WWII because they could easily ship ore across the Baltic. The only reason they weren't a major reshipment point was that outside trade largely couldn't get to them)

If they do that kind of trade and the people your trading with don't blacklist them for it, yuo blacklist the person in question.

What your talking about is the equivalent in the WW's of the allies shipping out some manufactured goods for trade, then having multiple intermediary countries play pass the parcel to the axis powers. If you think they would have stood for that i can only laugh. Certainly a blockade offered a simpler solution than messing with the alternatives but i don't believe they wouldn't have resorted to active commerce raiding, even outright invasion if the country was small enough to stop such trade. As others have pointed out the west has shown that we can today do this without military force just by having appropriate laws for who our own businesses can deal with.

You also might want to go back and read the back end of ART. Kingsford and his analyst make it clear that the SLN thinks the best strategy is to raid Manticores commerce, including neutral's that switch sides. Obviously given his messan connection we can't assume the analysts conclusions about the GA's returning the favor are 100% true, but i don't see any reason they wouldn't or shouldn't either. Basically you can limit your business to anything that doesn't help the SL/GA or you can get pounded flat, only the GA once it gets missile production moving again will be able to make that stick a lot more of the time.

That almost immediately escalates to simply cutting off your own trade to any actual neutrals.

You can't control who buys the goods from a shipments once it hits the markets of the first neutral planet or station. Sure you can crack down on a shipping line that blatantly ships directly from you to your enemy. But goods being sold to neutrals that eventually get resold to your enemies are hard to track (much harder than today here on Earth) and you can't cut off the final leg (the only one that touches your enemy) because they don't do any firsthand trade with you. You likely can't even cut off the planet or station that sold it to them because they aren't doing much first hand business with you.

So you have to cut off the planets/stations/lines that trade with them. Then those that trade with those that trade with them. And pretty soon you can't trade with anybody who would resell to anybody outside your own little (or not so little) alliance.

The SL leadership knows its in a fight for its life. They know this to their bones now. So they will take measures to ensure there is no trade between the SL and GA, including the financial data. If the League wins, it expects to win big and will deal with the rest of human space as it wants. It will be the only superpower so it feels it will be able to dictate terms and there will be no one else to say otherwise. If they lose, they won't be around to pick up the bill so they are in it for the whole thing. Win or lose it all. Nothing in between.

So the League is likely informing the third rate parties you keep mentioning (who are they anyways?) that if they want to keep operating in the Solarian League they have to toe the line or they will be penalized/kicked out. I also think that the financial corps are one type of corporation that has a lot more governmental control on it and after Lacoon 1 and 2, the Ministries are probably tracking down any and all finances and businesses the SEM has in SL space and confiscating it.

That being said, the SL can't prevent goods from eventually reaching the GA through a series of shippers, but they can come down heavily on those that try it with only 1 to 3 different shipping moves. Either way though, to have the financial data still openly flowing to and from the GA/SEM would be the height of stupidity for both the GA and SL. The financial sector that was Manticore is no longer connected to SL space, even with dispatch boats (trading with the enemy would be seen as treason by both sides)

JohnRoth wrote:

Carl wrote:You also might want to go back and read the back end of ART. Kingsford and his analyst make it clear that the SLN thinks the best strategy is to raid Manticores commerce, including neutral's that switch sides. Obviously given his messan connection we can't assume the analysts conclusions about the GA's returning the favor are 100% true, but i don't see any reason they wouldn't or shouldn't either. Basically you can limit your business to anything that doesn't help the SL/GA or you can get pounded flat, only the GA once it gets missile production moving again will be able to make that stick a lot more of the time.

Your analysis has got a few holes in it. The analyst is a MAlign mole, and, while the recommendation will undoubtedly weaken Manticore and allies, its primary covert objective is to pull ships from the chronically understrength Frontier Fleet just when they're needed to keep the hobnailed boot on the neck of restive protectorate planets and entire sectors that are ready to rebel.

I doubt the analyst is the only source of information for that. Right now he has to establish his credentials and that means giving good solid and confirmable information. that's something else the analyst has to worry about, he's not the only source for information. The SLN has several different intelligence agencies, military and civilian. The SL Marines have their own and they will likely be seeing a different picture. The Ministries have their own, as does the civilian intelligence agencies. The MAlign does not and cannot control them all. As we have seen in AAC, there are lower level analysts and people who are twigging on the truth. So the MAign analyst has to be giving information that others can confirm. The best he can do though is steer perceptions, which is his job I think. To shape for his superiors see things without changing the information he gives them.

Frontier Fleet has always been understrength. The SLN will be commissioning hundreds of BCs, for home defense and raiding fleets. They can replace battlecruisers a lot faster than superdreadnaughts. Which is actually smart. It's about the only thing the SL and SLN can do to Manticore that has a good chance of hurting them. In that, the idea is a solid one even if it weakens FF somewhat.

I doubt the analyst is the only source of information for that. Right now he has to establish his credentials and that means giving good solid and confirmable information. that's something else the analyst has to worry about, he's not the only source for information. The SLN has several different intelligence agencies, military and civilian. The SL Marines have their own and they will likely be seeing a different picture. The Ministries have their own, as does the civilian intelligence agencies. The MAlign does not and cannot control them all. As we have seen in AAC, there are lower level analysts and people who are twigging on the truth. So the MAign analyst has to be giving information that others can confirm. The best he can do though is steer perceptions, which is his job I think. To shape for his superiors see things without changing the information he gives them.

Frontier Fleet has always been understrength. The SLN will be commissioning hundreds of BCs, for home defense and raiding fleets. They can replace battlecruisers a lot faster than superdreadnaughts. Which is actually smart. It's about the only thing the SL and SLN can do to Manticore that has a good chance of hurting them. In that, the idea is a solid one even if it weakens FF somewhat.

Apart from this i'd also point out that whilst he's making recommendations. Those recommendations are being listened to on the SL side. the Sollies are going to go doing this.

More importantly it is a good solid sound recommendation for both sides.

Also all the two sides have to do is require anyone they do business with to impose the same "don;t trade with the other guy or get cut off policy), on their trading partners and so on and so forth. Not that we've seen enough evidence for them to play pass the parcel like that but that's a separate point.

Remember also that both sides have explicitly stated at various points that merchant shipping is a valid target in war and that both sides are out to destroy each other as nation states, thinners just trying to stop the other side from kicking the other by getting the to surrender, they're going for the kill here.

Zakharra wrote:

SWM wrote:So, you are suggesting that the League will tell every regional financial market in foreign systems to stop doing business with Manticore, on threat of losing access to the Solarian market? Do you think that those regional financial markets will listen to the League, when the Manticoran market is even bigger than the League market, and access to the wormhole network is critical to their business? And don't forget that at any given time there will be quite a bit of Solarian financial instruments already flowing through those regional markets. If the League closes access to the regional markets, those instruments cannot get back into the League.

If the League carries out a threat to block the regional markets from the League, they are just cutting off their own nose. The League needs those markets more than those markets need the League.

Yes. If those corps and institutions want to do business in the SL they will have to. Who controls the permits, the licensing, who gets taxed, the rules and regulations? The Ministries. If the corps want to survive, they will have to decide who they want to snuggle up to and if the price is worth it if they buck the system.

I don't think it was ever stated that the Manticore market was ever bigger than the entire League market. It isn't. It never has been and it still isn't projected to ever be larger than the League market. The GA market/economy will be in 15-20 years, but not the SEM unless the SEM grows to encompass a LOT more worlds.

Check again. Look at http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/236/1. I will quote and highlight one important section:

One of the worst aspects of the collateral damage of Old Earth's Final War was the effective collapse of the interstellar financial and commodity marketing system. The system as a whole didn't fail, but the damage that the for all intents and purposes total destruction of the central node of the system sent shock waves through out the entire explored galaxy and created a panic that very nearly led to a complete failure of the interstellar banking community. At the same time, the unquestioned prestige of the mother system's jurisprudence also pretty much fell apart, leaving several competing "fountain sources" for interstellar and "maritime" law.

It took quite some time for the interstellar financial system to restore itself and to put the terrible, confidence-shaking collapse of the previous system behind it. The process was gradual, and most people seemed to want to avoid the kind of centralization which had produced such catastrophic consequences. As a result, no single star system ever attained the prominence and dominating role in international finances which had once belonged to the mother world. Instead, a series of regional centers developed within a fundamentally decentralized system. It was nowhere near as efficient on a macro level as the defunct system killed off by the Final War had been, but it recouped some of that in advantages for local markets, and it provided most of the essential services, even if it was rather clumsy upon occasion.

Following the emergence of the Star Kingdom with its position dominating the most important single navigational connection in the entire galaxy, however, the regionalism which had been incorporated into the new system came up against the fact that Manticore, by its "geographic position," had an overwhelming advantage where financial markets and transactions were concerned. Not only were physical cargoes transshipped at Manticore, but so where financial instruments, and a financial services community quickly grew up to handle that traffic, as well. The fact that the Star Kingdom had always enshrined the rule of law and that the impartiality and fairness of its court system was well-established generated a lot of investor confidence, and the Star Kingdom did, indeed, turned into a major hub of the interstellar financial community. In fact, the Star Kingdom has come remarkably close to stepping into the "central clearinghouse" role the Sol system once filled.

Note that last sentence, which I have bolded. Manticore is not, itself, a larger market for financial instruments than the Solarian League--that is, Manticoran factors do not buy and sell more than the League as a whole. But the total quantity of financial instruments passing through the Manticoran system, makes Manticore a dominating force in the interstellar financial market. Manticore is more critical to the interstellar financial market than the League. The wormhole junction makes it a financial clearinghouse. Without the wormhole network (including the sections that Manticore has now seized), the interstellar financial market simply cannot operate effectively.

So I don't think that the League could convince the regional markets (those which are not in League space) to close their doors to Manticore, because losing access to the wormhole network would force them to close their doors completely and shut down. I suppose it is possible that Manticore might ask the regional market to close their doors to the Solarian League, but I'm not convinced they will.

You keep harping on the idea that Manticore has closed access to Solarian markets, but as I recall that was talking about the physical markets, the trading ships. And even then, Manticore has not forced independent third parties to stop trading with the Solarian League. So I don't see them doing it with financial instruments, either. The only thing that Manticore has done is prevent Solarian ships from traveling through the wormhole network, and ordered Manticoran ships to leave Solarian space. There is nothing preventing either side from trading with third parties.

SWM wrote:Check again. Look at http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/236/1. I will quote and highlight one important section:

One of the worst aspects of the collateral damage of Old Earth's Final War was the effective collapse of the interstellar financial and commodity marketing system. The system as a whole didn't fail, but the damage that the for all intents and purposes total destruction of the central node of the system sent shock waves through out the entire explored galaxy and created a panic that very nearly led to a complete failure of the interstellar banking community. At the same time, the unquestioned prestige of the mother system's jurisprudence also pretty much fell apart, leaving several competing "fountain sources" for interstellar and "maritime" law.

It took quite some time for the interstellar financial system to restore itself and to put the terrible, confidence-shaking collapse of the previous system behind it. The process was gradual, and most people seemed to want to avoid the kind of centralization which had produced such catastrophic consequences. As a result, no single star system ever attained the prominence and dominating role in international finances which had once belonged to the mother world. Instead, a series of regional centers developed within a fundamentally decentralized system. It was nowhere near as efficient on a macro level as the defunct system killed off by the Final War had been, but it recouped some of that in advantages for local markets, and it provided most of the essential services, even if it was rather clumsy upon occasion.

Following the emergence of the Star Kingdom with its position dominating the most important single navigational connection in the entire galaxy, however, the regionalism which had been incorporated into the new system came up against the fact that Manticore, by its "geographic position," had an overwhelming advantage where financial markets and transactions were concerned. Not only were physical cargoes transshipped at Manticore, but so where financial instruments, and a financial services community quickly grew up to handle that traffic, as well. The fact that the Star Kingdom had always enshrined the rule of law and that the impartiality and fairness of its court system was well-established generated a lot of investor confidence, and the Star Kingdom did, indeed, turned into a major hub of the interstellar financial community. In fact, the Star Kingdom has come remarkably close to stepping into the "central clearinghouse" role the Sol system once filled.

Note that last sentence, which I have bolded. Manticore is not, itself, a larger market for financial instruments than the Solarian League--that is, Manticoran factors do not buy and sell more than the League as a whole. But the total quantity of financial instruments passing through the Manticoran system, makes Manticore a dominating force in the interstellar financial market. Manticore is more critical to the interstellar financial market than the League. The wormhole junction makes it a financial clearinghouse. Without the wormhole network (including the sections that Manticore has now seized), the interstellar financial market simply cannot operate effectively.

So I don't think that the League could convince the regional markets (those which are not in League space) to close their doors to Manticore, because losing access to the wormhole network would force them to close their doors completely and shut down. I suppose it is possible that Manticore might ask the regional market to close their doors to the Solarian League, but I'm not convinced they will.

You keep harping on the idea that Manticore has closed access to Solarian markets, but as I recall that was talking about the physical markets, the trading ships. And even then, Manticore has not forced independent third parties to stop trading with the Solarian League. So I don't see them doing it with financial instruments, either. The only thing that Manticore has done is prevent Solarian ships from traveling through the wormhole network, and ordered Manticoran ships to leave Solarian space. There is nothing preventing either side from trading with third parties.

/sighh

You're missing the point. The SL and SEM/GA are at war. The SL HAS to cut off their financial market as much as they can from Manticore and the GA or it will suffer worse economic damage. To allow that market to remain connected is insane in a time of war, and they are in a state of war. Letting those markets remain connected as you are implying would let the SEM completely crash the SL economy far more than it has now.

It's to both sides advantage to have those ties as severed as possible, and I am sure that even as much damage as removing the SEM banking industry from the SL banking/financial sector will hurt, it's a price the SL will pay if it is to survive. Otherwise if the financial sectors remain connected as you are imp-lying, the SL has already lost because the SEM has it, literally, by the short and curlies in regards to the SL economy.

Carl wrote:

I doubt the analyst is the only source of information for that. Right now he has to establish his credentials and that means giving good solid and confirmable information. that's something else the analyst has to worry about, he's not the only source for information. The SLN has several different intelligence agencies, military and civilian. The SL Marines have their own and they will likely be seeing a different picture. The Ministries have their own, as does the civilian intelligence agencies. The MAlign does not and cannot control them all. As we have seen in AAC, there are lower level analysts and people who are twigging on the truth. So the MAign analyst has to be giving information that others can confirm. The best he can do though is steer perceptions, which is his job I think. To shape for his superiors see things without changing the information he gives them.

Frontier Fleet has always been understrength. The SLN will be commissioning hundreds of BCs, for home defense and raiding fleets. They can replace battlecruisers a lot faster than superdreadnaughts. Which is actually smart. It's about the only thing the SL and SLN can do to Manticore that has a good chance of hurting them. In that, the idea is a solid one even if it weakens FF somewhat.

Apart from this i'd also point out that whilst he's making recommendations. Those recommendations are being listened to on the SL side. the Sollies are going to go doing this.

More importantly it is a good solid sound recommendation for both sides.

Also all the two sides have to do is require anyone they do business with to impose the same "don;t trade with the other guy or get cut off policy), on their trading partners and so on and so forth. Not that we've seen enough evidence for them to play pass the parcel like that but that's a separate point.

Remember also that both sides have explicitly stated at various points that merchant shipping is a valid target in war and that both sides are out to destroy each other as nation states, thinners just trying to stop the other side from kicking the other by getting the to surrender, they're going for the kill here.

Re: mesan mole. He doesn't necessarily have to have any covert agenda to "weaken" FF, he only needs to establish himself as a credible analyst.

His analysis was actually on target and a bit more accurate in terms of ultimate outcomes than the analysis which has so far come from Wodolawsi/Quartermain, in that they were still not able to appreciate the damage/effect of Lacöon. They are both too close to the problem, and some of the leftover, residual attitude that comes of being the most important people in the galaxy is going to keep them from fully appreciating what will happen.

And despite the readers knowing what is happening, the SL leadership is not so well informed. They are months from Saltash, which is even farther from them than New Tuscany. So they DON"T KNOW (yet, and so far as we have read about) about that little incident. The last time they discussed events, Kolokoltsov was carefully not mentioning either the Zunker Incident, or the Nolan Incident; later, he withholds information from his fellow Mandarins regarding the possibility of Beowulf's neighbors also holding referenda on secession. The Mandarins do NOT share all their information-- they are true bureaucrats in this. You move up when your rivals step on it.

Also, even when they do share their data, the other Mandarins don't necessarily pay attention. Here, I will remind you that "Agata and I have been telling you and telling you" . . . and none of the non-financial-sector Mandarins had bothered to read their analysese.

I want to thank the poster above who included RFC's comments on the SL finance system. What I think some posters are forgetting is that the "dispatch boat" communications system, and the vast and unpatrolable "ocean" of hyperspace, puts both SEM and SL in a position where they simply can't interdict trade and smuggling. You are dealing with a communications network similar to the 1700s.


But that is ok; each side wants to recruit nuetrals to be "nuetral" in their favor. In the Verge, and to some extent in the Shell, where system governments may have recent recollection of the beneficence of OFS and the agencies of Interior, Trade, and Treasury, there may well be some covert support for the GA--as long as they can keep it sufficiently hidden not to warrant direct Solarian retaliation. But the Sollies ought to be smart enough not to retaliate--they want those systems to eventually fully rejoin the SL as members. And if the GA eventually stalls, they would regain any systems lost without messy, military actions against their own members.

I think this is a major point: the SL members who are borderline, with neither the military might to affect any outcome, or the financial clout to affect the course of events, are the battleground. The battle won't be military, because both the GA and the SL will recognize the need to woo these systems into their camp. Too heavy-handed a reaction from the League, and all of them jump ship; better to let smuggling slide--after all, it means moving freight.

And the Verge will be lost to the League in the short run; they will realize that very soon; the real struggle will be political, not military, for the support of the independents (and any League members that want independence). This is likely to be where Beowulf becomes the biggest player in the game, because of all of its "trade representatives."

To insert a political note, thinking the League can act as a unified State may be over-optimistic. It is obviously how the SLN looks at it; but any League is an association of states. It is no different in organiztion than a confederation, or a "treaty organization" like NATO or the Warsaw Pact. Of the Mandarins, only Kolokoltsov seems to remember that; Kingsford's new financial advisor said much the same thing, if the people he was briefing were smart enough to see it (they did seem to be).

Regards, and thanks for all the interest.

Rob

SNIP SWM (sorry --I got too many embedded quotes. Thanks for the links to the pearls, though).

[quote =
[quote = Zakhara]
/sighh

You're missing the point. The SL and SEM/GA are at war. The SL HAS to cut off their financial market as much as they can from Manticore and the GA or it will suffer worse economic damage. To allow that market to remain connected is insane in a time of war, and they are in a state of war. Letting those markets remain connected as you are implying would let the SEM completely crash the SL economy far more than it has now.

It's to both sides advantage to have those ties as severed as possible, and I am sure that even as much damage as removing the SEM banking industry from the SL banking/financial sector will hurt, it's a price the SL will pay if it is to survive. Otherwise if the financial sectors remain connected as you are imp-lying, the SL has already lost because the SEM has it, literally, by the short and curlies in regards to the SL economy.[/quote]

While in some ways I can sympathize with this viewpoint, it is assuming that both sides are assuming a "Total War" or a "scorched earth" strategy. I don't think either of them is; I don't think either of them will. In spite of Filareta's little mishap, what is preventing a massive outbreak of peace and sanity is mostly Solarian arrogance. The Mandarins are too afraid of acknowledging that other polities might act (successfully) in their own interest, because it undermines the Leagues' (and its transstellars') automatic hegemony. But the economic system seems too complex and vast --and information transfer too slow, and almost medieval in some ways-- for the kind of control you think to employ.

How do you learn someone is violating your trade ban? Months after the fact when that Light Cruiser at Back Forty (20 weeks away) sends a report that gets to the admiralty, which then routes the info to the foreign office and to the Exchequer, where it gets debated?

I don't think the Honorverse can actually accomplish the degree of control you anticipate. But we'll never settle the question until the author writes it.

regards,

Rob

edited to try to fix a quote. RT

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:But that is ok; each side wants to recruit nuetrals to be "nuetral" in their favor. In the Verge, and to some extent in the Shell, where system governments may have recent recollection of the beneficence of OFS and the agencies of Interior, Trade, and Treasury, there may well be some covert support for the GA--as long as they can keep it sufficiently hidden not to warrant direct Solarian retaliation. But the Sollies ought to be smart enough not to retaliate--they want those systems to eventually fully rejoin the SL as members. And if the GA eventually stalls, they would regain any systems lost without messy, military actions against their own members.

There is no long term if they don't stop the train. So the fact that a tactic might be a bad idea in the long run is totally unimportant if it is useful right now.

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:SNIP SWM (sorry --I got too many embedded quotes. Thanks for the links to the pearls, though).

[quote =
[quote = Zakhara]
/sighh

You're missing the point. The SL and SEM/GA are at war. The SL HAS to cut off their financial market as much as they can from Manticore and the GA or it will suffer worse economic damage. To allow that market to remain connected is insane in a time of war, and they are in a state of war. Letting those markets remain connected as you are implying would let the SEM completely crash the SL economy far more than it has now.

It's to both sides advantage to have those ties as severed as possible, and I am sure that even as much damage as removing the SEM banking industry from the SL banking/financial sector will hurt, it's a price the SL will pay if it is to survive. Otherwise if the financial sectors remain connected as you are imp-lying, the SL has already lost because the SEM has it, literally, by the short and curlies in regards to the SL economy.

While in some ways I can sympathize with this viewpoint, it is assuming that both sides are assuming a "Total War" or a "scorched earth" strategy. I don't think either of them is; I don't think either of them will. In spite of Filareta's little mishap, what is preventing a massive outbreak of peace and sanity is mostly Solarian arrogance. The Mandarins are too afraid of acknowledging that other polities might act (successfully) in their own interest, because it undermines the Leagues' (and its transstellars') automatic hegemony. But the economic system seems too complex and vast --and information transfer too slow, and almost medieval in some ways-- for the kind of control you think to employ.

How do you learn someone is violating your trade ban? Months after the fact when that Light Cruiser at Back Forty (20 weeks away) sends a report that gets to the admiralty, which then routes the info to the foreign office and to the Exchequer, where it gets debated?

I don't think the Honorverse can actually accomplish the degree of control you anticipate. But we'll never settle the question until the author writes it.

regards,

Rob

edited to try to fix a quote. RT[/quote]


Yeah, the quote limitation here is bizarre and annoying at times. In regards to your comment, I think orders would be going out now to enforce that ban. More or less giving the regional governors more control or at the least authority to enforce SL ministry dictates (gods.. why does that sound so familiar? 'The regional governors will have direct control' 'How will the Empire maintain control then?' 'Fear. Fear of this battle station.' ) It's possible for the SL governors and Ministries, with the SLN to support them, to have a lot of direct influence. Especially if they can couch it in terms of 'only for the length of the current emergency.' But the issue remains they -have- to do something or they are further screwed.



I thought I'd address this quote by SWM: In fact, the Star Kingdom has come remarkably close to stepping into the "central clearinghouse" role the Sol system once filled. This should be one of the main reasons why the SL cuts its ties to the SEM banking sector. To leave it means that the SEM would still have immense control over the SL economy and financial sector when the two stellar polities are in a state of war. You might think it would be foolish for the SL to cut that large market out, SWM, but consider this: the SL and SEM are in a state of war for survival. The winner survives, the loser will be destroyed. Do you really think the SL would be stupid enough to leave the SEM -that- much control over the SL's financial sector while its trying its best to reorganize, rearm and recover from the damage the SEM has already done to it? It would be like giving the SEM the key to the SLs vaults and telling them to loot it. It's foolish to do. The smart and logical move to do would have been to sever those financial ties, even if it hurts alot. for the SL to allow those ties to remain would be like the SL ministries and such cutting their own throat. Without those ties intact, the SL might die. With those ties intact, the SL would die without question.