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Food - General Intensive Growing
Post by DDHv   » Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:50 pm

DDHv
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In the last century garden methods have greatly improved.

We read about intensive gardening in Mother Earth News, started with one small bed to see how it would work. Currently it is both giving an excuse to get outdoors in good weather and supplying very large amounts of fresh food. Not perfect: 2013 we had no apples and few squash (opposite in 2014). But the raspberries planted where the water comes off the roof did well, the currents and grapes also. Many other things did well also. What to grow depends on location and circumstances.

Keeping small livestock in the greenhouse can help heat it and help keep the livestock warm. I'm talking chickens and rabbits here, which are the most practical critters for most situations, including in cities.


If you live in the country, an interesting chicken pen design has fences six feet apart, with a gate at one end that can be swung one way or the other. The other end connects to the chicken yard around the greenhouse/chicken house. One year it is chickens, garden, chickens etc. Next year garden, chickens, garden, etc. The greenhouse half is on the south, with chicken wire dividing it from the chickens. For some reason or other, there is never much problem with bugs :!: :lol:

Also, the chickens tend to dig up their area, especially if you throw weeds & scraps over the fence. Less preparation work next spring. MEN magazine, I can't use it myself, I live in town.

Our local USDA office has an exhibit in front showing how to grow vegetables on 80 Lb straw bales tipped on their side. You dig out a little at the top, add some potting soil, plant, and water.

Info: "How to Grow More Vegetables than you ever thought possible, on less land than you can Imagine." By John Jeavons. Very accurate title. Professional. A report states that some truck gardeners using these methods are getting as much net return per HOUR using hand tools as those with tractors. More work, which is good for the muscles.

"Square Foot Gardening" by Mel Bartholomew Less for experts.

A relatively new method is aquaponics:
"Aquaponic Gardening" by Sylvia Bernstein

Do a search on "Intensive Gardening" as many others exist.


Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever,
unless you test your assumptions.
Last edited by DDHv on Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
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Re: Food - Winter growing
Post by Northstar   » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:03 pm

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DDHv wrote:Our food system can break down. Backup: grow some.

In the winter either windows can be used, or protected outdoor greenhouses.

Info: "Fresh Food from Small Spaces" by R.J. Rupenthal The author lives in an apartment, can't grow all his own, but ...

Eliot Coleman has developed methods that allow growing some very cold resistant crops in unheated greenhouses, commercially. Several books have been written. Most of us don't have this much room.

Anything along these lines can help the wallet also. With the current drought in the Southwest, food prices are likely to rise this winter.

PS BJ likes to look at the grocery store passouts and GLOAT :lol:



Frankly, by this time of year I am ready for a vacation from gardening. Winter gardening is also more practical in milder climates than ours. The Pacific Northwest can grow many things year round with only minimal protection. Livestock can pretty much be on pasture year round there also. Western Washington, Oregon, northern California.

For most folks I suspect it would be better, and more actually do-able, to plan on preserving and storing crops until the next harvest begins. This is, of course, the standard old farm practice. All that is old can become new and relevant again. :D Learning how to can and use a root cellar etc are very helpful. Psss shhhh, a cool closet will keep a lot of things fine for some months, including potatoes stored in cardboard boxes, carrots ditto, sweet potatoes, winter squashes and pumpkins. Only experience will teach what works how long in your particular conditions.

If you have a pressure canner and ample supply of jars & lids etc and a stove that can work with the power off, then you have a means of rescuing meat and many vegetables in your freezer should the power going to be off for long enough to thaw all of it. this sure beats having to throw it all out. And you can use the canner etc all the time for regular canning projects.

We have a Vermont Castings wood-burning stove in the family room. This is our backup heat and cooking source. And is nice all the time for just because. :D

Whether home prepared or store bought how much of what do you need? Well, my gr gr aunt started with how much of each item is used in an average month. She taught home ec for over 40 years, retiring in the early 60s. Make a list. You may be surprised how long it is. Then decide how much of each item you actually use, on average, in a month. Multiply by the number of months' supply you have decided to keep on hand. That is your personal shopping supply goal list. You won't waste any money because these are all things you actually use regularly and you have only purchased the amounts you actually use over X amount of time. As things come in, write on them with a sharpie when you bought them. duh, use the oldest first. :) And replace each thing as it is used, this maintains your supplies on hand without any further extra expense.

I am a huge fan of keeping a reasonable supply of foods you normally use on hand. This is useful regardless of any major bad happening and if a major bad ever actually does happen it can save your lives, or at least keep you out of the insanity you see in stores whenever a hurricane approaches or any such.
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Re: Warmth - personal insulation
Post by Northstar   » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:51 pm

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DDHv wrote:Warm weather people tend to misuse clothes, etc. in cold weather.

The trick is to use multiple weaker layers. With the Dakotas halfway between pole and equator, our outer layer should be a windproof. Light jackets, sweaters, etc. can be added or removed to match the temperature.

Sweating in cold weather is a no-no, which can happen if you only have one heavy duty coat.

There are sleeping bags available which can handle -40deg. However, when Dad brought me up as we scouted ND, we had a mattress in the station wagon, and multiple blankets & quilts on top. Uncomfortable outside, but we slept warm.

A sweater or light jacket lets you save on heating bills in the winter.


Caulk and insulate around windows and doors and places like baseboards. And, this one is easy to overlook; electric outlets and switches etc. There are foam thingies you can buy to put in them as well as spray can stuff. There are also plastic plug things to put in open unused electric outlets, these are good for both drafts and child safety.

Do not wear 100% cotton clothing on hikes etc. You can die of hypothermia in 50s degree F temps in pure cotton clothing that gets wet. Use poly cotton blends, fleeces, best yet- wool, which remains warm even when soaking wet. Same for socks. wool socks for ditto.

I hand sew quilts and my preferred batting is Quilter's Dream 100% wool batting, with 100% cotton front and back fabric in the quilt. These last many decades with normal use, are lightweight and warm without overheating. All this can apply to the right wool clothing and layers of wool and cotton etc as well.

If you live in places with very cold winters sweet talk a knitter to make you wool mittens and gloves and if you know someone who spins and has wool fleece on hand sweet talk her into shagging the interior of wool mittens for you with wool fleece. You do this using a crochet hook to pull wool fibers through the inside knitting loops. All over the inside of the mitten so your hand is cocooned in wool fleece. Mr Northstar adores these and so do neighbors who wangle various trades to get a pair. The very best fleece for lining mittens is Finn. Hey, it keeps sheep warm outdoors in Finland all winter. :D

You can buy fleeces online from shepherds, including Finn. Expect to buy an entire fleece and you will need to wash it properly. It will come au natural from the sheep's back and life on the farm. I use Dawn and kosher salt and hot water to wash fleece, pm me if interested in details of handling a fleece so it does not matt or felt. Is not difficult and can be done in the kitchen sink.

Wool fleece also makes the most wonderful pillows on earth. They cannot be bought. You have to make them yourself and it is worth every minute of work. Why? Warm and resilient without being hot, breathes, can absorb a third of its weight in moisture before it feels wet, unlike down that can get real clammy and cold. Wool cards are helpful but an ordinary hair comb will do. Breeds like Corriedale make excellent pillows. you want something bouncy and resilient. I use purchased cotton pillow covers, like from wallyworld, with a zipper. White cotton. Layer tufts of clean and carded/combed wool until you have the firmness and loft you want. It will settle and pack down over time so prepare extra fleece and simply add to pillow as needed. After several years it will be so felted it is useful for the insides of throw pillows. Time to make fresh bed pillows then. :D One corriedale or similar fleece will make several pillows. How many? Depends on the size of the fleece and how much you stuff in each pillow.

Clothes for get home bag, which should be in your car, including comfortable sturdy hiking boots or some such for a possibly long walk and wool socks for ditto, and bandaids etc for blisters. Hint: put on bandaids on vulnerable places before you start walking. Prevention is better than cure. These clothes should be very plain and boring looking, comfortable, layered, extra socks and underwear. No loud colors and no camo stuff either. Maybe you just have car trouble and your cell isn't working, that's one thing. But if some sort of real trouble has happened then you do not want to attract attention or look interesting or like you might have good stuff in that bag. Thus the bag itself should also be both comfortable to carry and worn looking, boring looking, easy to overlook. Better to look like a street person with nothing but junk than like Mr/Ms Prepper with whizbang goodies in that bag. Just sayin...

What is actually in the bag? Up to you and your situation. What would you wish you had in a bag in the trunk if crap went down and you have to walk home? Maybe through crap happening all around. What would you wish you had that you can actually carry for many miles? That is what should be in your persoal get home bag.

I had to do that once from car trouble. No cells then. Rural place. You do not need a Richter 9 earthquake to suddenly need something like this. :D
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General - Priorities
Post by DDHv   » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:32 am

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We can only do one thing at a time so should set a priority.

Setting priority seems to be a balance between urgency and importance. Urgency is about now, importance is more about long term. Preparing the current meal may be urgent, raising or storing food may be more important. You may need to go hungry once in a while to divert resources to the future. It is worth while spending a little time thinking about what you should do next instead of jumping on your horse and galloping off in ten directions at the same time :lol:

For me, the best pattern seems to be to make a to do list for the next day in the evening. The day's rush is over, there is time to pray and think, and once made, the list can easily be ranked by perceived priority.

Wisdom seems to be the ability to make the best use of your knowledge and understanding. A good priority system applies!

This is true with cultures also. At present we have many things clamoring for our attention. IS and ebola have killed about the same amount, and we, as individuals and a culture need to decide what to do. But in the long run, who we vote for may be more important. These are the people who will be running things, and it is important to have those that concentrate of solving a crisis instead of only using it to get re-elected. We need to spend time with both the urgent and the important.

"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that gives to all men liberally, and upbraids not, and it shall be given him." James 1:5 in the Bible.
In college, I knew a youngster who was flunking physics. He just couldn't seem to get the ideas. In addition to studying, he started claiming this promise in prayer. After a month he had moved from D & F grades to B & C as his norm.

PS
Frankly, by this time of year I am ready for a vacation from gardening.
Me too, but a little chives or lettuce to add freshness is easy to grow. With lettuce, you pinch off the lowest leaf, with chives, cut about an inch up. Both then continue to grow.
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
Top
Re: General - Priorities
Post by Northstar   » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:28 pm

Northstar
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Posts: 1126
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:50 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

DDHv wrote:

PS
Frankly, by this time of year I am ready for a vacation from gardening.
Me too, but a little chives or lettuce to add freshness is easy to grow. With lettuce, you pinch off the lowest leaf, with chives, cut about an inch up. Both then continue to grow.


True enough. A nice small lettuce is Tom Thumb. Makes a softball size buttercrunch type head in about a month. There are many leaf lettuces happy to grow in a south window. If you like chives you might like to try a plant of Chinese garlic chives, white larger flower heads than regular chives. Wild bees etc love the ones in our garden. Tastes like - surprise - a cross between chive and garlic. Speaking of garlic it is easy to grow outdoors. You can also grow a tomato plant in that south window. Try a cherry tomato some time. You probably won't get a lot of tomatoes but even a few in midwinter is great. A little blast of summertime in January. Some grow cukes in the house, the greenhouse kind that do not need pollinating. I have not but I know some do. You could also try spinach, or little round type carrots like Parmex or Thumbalina, etc
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Food - Winter growing
Post by DDHv   » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:46 pm

DDHv
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Our old house won't allow tomatoes in Jan-Feb even inside. Even with new better windows, really low temperatures chill too much near the windows. With the house so big, we only heat five rooms, and are still upgrading insulation etc. elsewhere. However, we have harvested some as late as December. It is possible to start new plants as early as New Years under lights etc. because new ones don't take up much room and can be in the warmer part.

BTW, anyone looking at this thread might also want to look at the Sustainability vs Survivalist thread.

Note: Many local law enforcement officers are doing good work. I used the excuse of reading about Ferguson to thank ours. People do like to get recognition when they do well.
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
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Buying - Quality vs Quantity
Post by DDHv   » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:15 pm

DDHv
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We can buy quality, or quantity (cheap) for good reason.

If what you want to buy will be useful for a long time,
If quality will be much more effective,
Then buy quality.
Example: My wife bought an expensive Cutco(tm) knife etc. set about 45 years back. Recently we had to replace the food scissors because the pivot wore out, but the rest are sharp and have never been sharpened.

If what you want to buy will be used up or lost soon.
If there is low quality with enough performance,
Then buy low cost which still is good enough.
Example: commodities in general, paper towels, food, etc. Someone who buys an expensive pencil is not doing so for practical reasons at all :!:

Often it is possible to get better quality at a lower price with just a little work.
Example: Gardening for a few hours a week provides food that is better than grocery store for many vegetables. It also provides a good excuse to use my muscles outside on a good day. The primary problem is weed control. We place cardboard rings covered with mulch around plants. For more permanent areas, some types of used carpet work well also. Not a perfect solution, but reduces the work needed.

"He that tills his land shall have plenty of bread: but he that follows after vain persons shall have poverty enough."
Proverbs 28:19
With combines and such automating grain harvesting, this applies more to vegetables & such, but still makes sense.
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
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General - Stability
Post by DDHv   » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:18 am

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Complexity research improves our understanding of stability.

Complicated and simple are opposites. Complex and simplex are opposites. But complicated and complex are not the same, and simple and simplex are not the same. This matters.

Experiment and simulation of the very simple system of adding sand at the same place to a pile shows this. Sand added to the same place is simple, but only simplex when the pile is flat. As the slopes become steeper, the odds for slumps increase. The interconnections between portions of the slope which are on the edge of slumping also increase. The latter is the increase in complexity. If interconnection is high, one grain of sand may trigger a major slump. The size of the triggering event does not determine the size of the reaction. The size of the pile and the connectedness between the strained slope portions are the major factors here.

A complex system has four defining qualities. Diversity of agents, connectedness, interdependence, and adaptive behavior. As a result, the chance of the greatest possible failure is an exponential non linear function of scale. A complex system follows a power law distribution, not the normal distribution. The timing becomes unpredictable. The failure law a complicated but simplex system follows is the normal type. Often the normal type is used where it shouldn't be because we can understand it more easily.

Many systems have complex behavior. Snow piling on a slope. Earthquakes. The economy. Social patterns.

In ski areas the workers will set off dynamite charges when the slopes are tending toward instability. This relieves the strain and produces many small avalanches at a time when the slopes are not occupied, instead of a few big ones when they can do great damage.

A system can be complicated but not complex. An electrical power grid composed of many microgrids which automatically disconnect and go to independent function when needed is complicated, but not complex. A mechanical swiss watch is complicated, not complex. The fact that a solid state chip can be made complicated but not complex is what produced the greater reliability needed for small computers of great computing power.

A few decades back, the northeast of the US had a major blackout. This was caused by a minor failure in a complex system under strain. It was possible to restore function faster due to the action of one operator near the center of the blackout. He saw the draw on his generating plant climbing badly, and disconnected before the blackout. After the blackout, he was able to send power to some nearby generating plants which they used to run the supporting equipment needed to start up again. They in turn could start others.

Look at Hurricane Sandy. This was a major triggering event. A number of microgrids kept on operating even though the general grid went down.

When we don't want a major breakdown, we must design for robustness, not just efficiency. A robust system can most easily be made with low connectedness and independence. This is an argument for well designed distributed production and distribution of necessities. This becomes more cogent when the system can be designed to be both robust and efficient, but in some cases we need to accept a higher cost.

Necessities are food, water, and protection against bad weather. A demand for cheap luxuries produces a system where food in the cupboard comes from thousands of miles away. This gives us an efficiency of scale, but also a greater potential failure.
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
Top
Re: General - Stability
Post by biochem   » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:17 am

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DDHv wrote:Necessities are food, water, and protection against bad weather. A demand for cheap luxuries produces a system where food in the cupboard comes from thousands of miles away. This gives us an efficiency of scale, but also a greater potential failure.



There are an awful lot of discussions in the Honorverse forum on this very thing regarding the effect of the Lacoon strategy on the SL. Many of the posting used this type of scenario in our current world as a base for thoughts which they then expanded to the League.
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Re: General - Stability
Post by DDHv   » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:23 am

DDHv
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biochem wrote:
DDHv wrote:Necessities are food, water, and protection against bad weather. A demand for cheap luxuries produces a system where food in the cupboard comes from thousands of miles away. This gives us an efficiency of scale, but also a greater potential failure.



There are an awful lot of discussions in the Honorverse forum on this very thing regarding the effect of the Lacoon strategy on the SL. Many of the posting used this type of scenario in our current world as a base for thoughts which they then expanded to the League.


Where, please. That should be interesting!
Found it: Honorverse > Lacoon I
Last edited by DDHv on Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
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