HFQ Official Snippet #7

Very nicely said! No special nobility to remark on here. Thirsk has muddled through his moral quandries without any real distinction. He did not perform exceptionally poorly either.

I too will wait for what does next before I compare him favorably with Theisman.

CSB wrote:

n7axw wrote:Thirsk did not make either of those decisions. They were taken away from him. In order to actually reverse the results, he would have needed the means to resist which he did not have.

As for looking for a way out, maybe he is. His story is not yet fully told.

Don

If I remember correctly, the Charisian POWs were held under Thirsk's authority for months before the Inquisition demanded that they be turned over in preparation for the trip to Zion. I'm not saying he had full control over the situation--he didn't--but he had some, and failed to accomplish *anything morally useful whatsoever* with the single exception of collecting the letters at the very end. Quoting Pasquale's requirements from the Writ would have been *something.*

Thirsk may well be looking for a way out. He should have realized that necessity *long* before now and did not, and in the meantime, he is still aggressively pushing the technological development of Team Evil, to the point of threatening his own/his family's safety.

----------------

shayvaan, the parallel with Thomas Theisman is interesting and reasonably convincing. I'm not sure why I have somewhat less sympathy for Thirsk as compared to Theisman, though I'd be willing to bet that if a later book has Thirsk standing over Rayno's body with a bloodied sword (after Clyntahn's earlier death), I'd probably like him more.

pokermind wrote:As a member of the royal family with a wife and soon to be born kid I think his deck tromping days may well be over. But then he may well go as a link to intelligence from the snarks with the commander of the KH VIIs as a flag lieutenant. Will Hector have visions like Sejin Merlin? Only RFC knows for sure

Poker

I rather doubt that. Hektor is an adopted member and IIRC correctly, that means he is not in the line of succession for the throne. But even if he was in line for the throne I don't think that would really matter. The Charisan royal family seems to be a throwback to the medieval days where royals served in battle and proudly led from the front lines.

I mean, this is the same navy where 7 or 8 years ago the crown prince took off to Armageddon Reef with the brand new galleon fleet and his ship led the way in the battle line. Furthermore, around the same time the *REIGNING* monarch of Charis died in battle aboard the flagship of the galley fleet. Based on this tradition, what makes you think they would coddle Hektor?

Bit of a rant follows
Not sure where this Thirsk-bashing is coming from. This is from Snippet 6. You know, theone before this one!!!
"Gorath Bay’s temperature seldom fell below freezing, yet it could be bitterly cold in winter, especially for anyone out on its waters. The bay’s cold snaps, with their raw, biting chill, might last for five-days, despite its southern location. That was what had caused so much sickness among Gwyllym Manthyr’s half-starved, half-naked crews when they were confined in the prison hulks.

Oh, yes, Thirsk thought. The bay can be cruel, especially when human spite sees a chance to make it worse.

His jaw tightened as he remembered that winter, remembered his shame and the way the Inquisition had countermanded his orders to provide his prisoners — his prisoners — with food and healers. That wind-polished sheet of pitiless winter water danced before his eyes again, and he felt the helplessness he’d felt then. Oh, how he’d hated Gorath Bay throughout that cold, bitter winter."

Am I the only one here who remembers THirsk's anger at what the Inquisition was ordering him to do? Were it not for his religious guy (Intendant?) Thirsk would have ended up in the Inquisition's loving clutches. He knows the Inquisition is watching his children and their families to keep him in line. He has to make sure his young whiz kid doesn't go too far, or too fast and run afoul of the Proscriptions, as well.

THirsk is one of the most honorable characters in the series and I'm taking personal offense at folks impugning him for actions that he was ordered to do when opposing those orders would have accomplished nothing but his own demise and probably even the deaths by torture of his children and their families.

Are we reading the same books?

EdThomas wrote:Bit of a rant follows
Not sure where this Thirsk-bashing is coming from. This is from Snippet 6. You know, theone before this one!!!
"Gorath Bay’s temperature seldom fell below freezing, yet it could be bitterly cold in winter, especially for anyone out on its waters. The bay’s cold snaps, with their raw, biting chill, might last for five-days, despite its southern location. That was what had caused so much sickness among Gwyllym Manthyr’s half-starved, half-naked crews when they were confined in the prison hulks.

Oh, yes, Thirsk thought. The bay can be cruel, especially when human spite sees a chance to make it worse.

His jaw tightened as he remembered that winter, remembered his shame and the way the Inquisition had countermanded his orders to provide his prisoners — his prisoners — with food and healers. That wind-polished sheet of pitiless winter water danced before his eyes again, and he felt the helplessness he’d felt then. Oh, how he’d hated Gorath Bay throughout that cold, bitter winter."

Am I the only one here who remembers THirsk's anger at what the Inquisition was ordering him to do? Were it not for his religious guy (Intendant?) Thirsk would have ended up in the Inquisition's loving clutches. He knows the Inquisition is watching his children and their families to keep him in line. He has to make sure his young whiz kid doesn't go too far, or too fast and run afoul of the Proscriptions, as well.

THirsk is one of the most honorable characters in the series and I'm taking personal offense at folks impugning him for actions that he was ordered to do when opposing those orders would have accomplished nothing but his own demise and probably even the deaths by torture of his children and their families.

Are we reading the same books?

I agree. I see Thirsk as a good, honorable man and commander who is stuck in the service of a bad cause. And if he was the only one at risk, I think he might try to push the issue more. But his family is under the "protection" of the inquisition. So if he rocks the boat too much then they might suffer.

However, he is a capable strategist and technician. Even if we have not yet seen it in snippets, I would be highly surprised if he is not searching for a way to get his family to safety. And if he can ever find a way to pull that off, the Kingdom of Dohlar and the CoG better watch out. Because in addition to being highly capable, it seems to me that Thirsk is becoming more and more disillusioned with the political situation. If he is ever free to act as he wants, it could be the biggest surprise since Shannon Foraker's "Oops" in Ashes of Victory.

Henry Brown wrote:

EdThomas wrote:Bit of a rant follows
Not sure where this Thirsk-bashing is coming from. This is from Snippet 6. You know, theone before this one!!!
"Gorath Bay’s temperature seldom fell below freezing, yet it could be bitterly cold in winter, especially for anyone out on its waters. The bay’s cold snaps, with their raw, biting chill, might last for five-days, despite its southern location. That was what had caused so much sickness among Gwyllym Manthyr’s half-starved, half-naked crews when they were confined in the prison hulks.

Oh, yes, Thirsk thought. The bay can be cruel, especially when human spite sees a chance to make it worse.

His jaw tightened as he remembered that winter, remembered his shame and the way the Inquisition had countermanded his orders to provide his prisoners — his prisoners — with food and healers. That wind-polished sheet of pitiless winter water danced before his eyes again, and he felt the helplessness he’d felt then. Oh, how he’d hated Gorath Bay throughout that cold, bitter winter."

Am I the only one here who remembers THirsk's anger at what the Inquisition was ordering him to do? Were it not for his religious guy (Intendant?) Thirsk would have ended up in the Inquisition's loving clutches. He knows the Inquisition is watching his children and their families to keep him in line. He has to make sure his young whiz kid doesn't go too far, or too fast and run afoul of the Proscriptions, as well.

THirsk is one of the most honorable characters in the series and I'm taking personal offense at folks impugning him for actions that he was ordered to do when opposing those orders would have accomplished nothing but his own demise and probably even the deaths by torture of his children and their families.

Are we reading the same books?

I agree. I see Thirsk as a good, honorable man and commander who is stuck in the service of a bad cause. And if he was the only one at risk, I think he might try to push the issue more. But his family is under the "protection" of the inquisition. So if he rocks the boat too much then they might suffer.

However, he is a capable strategist and technician. Even if we have not yet seen it in snippets, I would be highly surprised if he is not searching for a way to get his family to safety. And if he can ever find a way to pull that off, the Kingdom of Dohlar and the CoG better watch out. Because in addition to being highly capable, it seems to me that Thirsk is becoming more and more disillusioned with the political situation. If he is ever free to act as he wants, it could be the biggest surprise since Shannon Foraker's "Oops" in Ashes of Victory.

Hey...hey... Thanks guys for these last two posts! Thanks to Ed for the quote. My defense of Thirsk was starting to get a bit lonely.

Don

n7axw wrote:Hey...hey... Thanks guys for these last two posts! Thanks to Ed for the quote. My defense of Thirsk was starting to get a bit lonely.

Don

Sorry it took me so long to chime in. Didn't realize you were feeling like "Horatius at the bridge."

Henry Brown wrote:I agree. I see Thirsk as a good, honorable man and commander who is stuck in the service of a bad cause. And if he was the only one at risk, I think he might try to push the issue more. But his family is under the "protection" of the inquisition. So if he rocks the boat too much then they might suffer.

However, he is a capable strategist and technician. Even if we have not yet seen it in snippets, I would be highly surprised if he is not searching for a way to get his family to safety. And if he can ever find a way to pull that off, the Kingdom of Dohlar and the CoG better watch out. Because in addition to being highly capable, it seems to me that Thirsk is becoming more and more disillusioned with the political situation. If he is ever free to act as he wants, it could be the biggest surprise since Shannon Foraker's "Oops" in Ashes of Victory.

To be more precise, the Inquisition has taken Thirsk's family into "protective custody." They are literally hostages to ensure his good behavior.

Now that we know how ancient and widespread Aivah's organization is, the possibility of it having cells in Dohlar seems more likely. Toss in the help of a disguised seijin or two, and the dozens of inquisitors "protecting" Thirsk's family could come to sudden and untimely ends, after which his family is ghosted away to freedom. (Preferably while he has the fleet out chasing the ICN.) When the schooner from the Inquisition arrives at his flagship to demand his arrest, they're going to receive a very cold (or would that be a very hot?) reception from his officers and crew.

At that point, knowing that his fleet is thoroughly outclassed and that the only possible result of taking the fight to the enemy would be its complete destruction, he might get away with ordering all his ships to strike their colors. The Charisians aren't going to torture or massacre them after all!

And OH how I would like to see Clyntahn's tantrum when that news reaches Zion!

McGuiness wrote:

Henry Brown wrote:I agree. I see Thirsk as a good, honorable man and commander who is stuck in the service of a bad cause. And if he was the only one at risk, I think he might try to push the issue more. But his family is under the "protection" of the inquisition. So if he rocks the boat too much then they might suffer.

However, he is a capable strategist and technician. Even if we have not yet seen it in snippets, I would be highly surprised if he is not searching for a way to get his family to safety. And if he can ever find a way to pull that off, the Kingdom of Dohlar and the CoG better watch out. Because in addition to being highly capable, it seems to me that Thirsk is becoming more and more disillusioned with the political situation. If he is ever free to act as he wants, it could be the biggest surprise since Shannon Foraker's "Oops" in Ashes of Victory.

To be more precise, the Inquisition has taken Thirsk's family into "protective custody." They are literally hostages to ensure his good behavior.

Now that we know how ancient and widespread Aivah's organization is, the possibility of it having cells in Dohlar seems more likely. Toss in the help of a disguised seijin or two, and the dozens of inquisitors "protecting" Thirsk's family could come to sudden and untimely ends, after which his family is ghosted away to freedom. (Preferably while he has the fleet out chasing the ICN.) When the schooner from the Inquisition arrives at his flagship to demand his arrest, they're going to receive a very cold (or would that be a very hot?) reception from his officers and crew.

At that point, knowing that his fleet is thoroughly outclassed and that the only possible result of taking the fight to the enemy would be its complete destruction, he might get away with ordering all his ships to strike their colors. The Charisians aren't going to torture or massacre them after all!

And OH how I would like to see Clyntahn's tantrum when that news reaches Zion!

Eh, when I referenced Shannon Foraker's "Oops" moment from AoV I had something a bit more aggressive in mind than Thirsk meekly surrendering to the ICN. Think more in lines of the Thirsk-loyal Dohlaran navy opening fire on shore fortifications in Gorath, followed shortly afterwards by marine landings to seize control of the capital.

Hi Henry Brown,

We know there are other competent people in Dohlar, the first minister the Duke of fern and the Duke of Salthar, besides Rychtyr and Ahlverez, each with their own followings.

I suspect when the crunch comes they will quietly ally to save the kingdom, while eliminating the incompetents in a breathlessly ruthless fashion that will have us all cheering.

I suspect Bishop Maik may be one of the go-betweens, after all who would suspect an intendant inquisitor?

I've posted before Ahlverez may help free Thirsk's family, to his astonishment.

I hope Duke Fern survives as he seems as smart and dedicated to Dohlar as Grey Harbor and Green Mountain were to Charis and Chisholm, despite the slob of a king he serves.

Which is why a regency for one of his sons or grandsons makes such sense to me, they serve up Rahnlyd IV to the alliance, or report his 'untimely' death when it was very timely as a matter of fact, if he doesn't abdicate to save the kingdom.

There are lots of entertaining ways that could happen!

Too many posters here seem too fixed on shelling Gorath city, when it doesn't help the alliance or taking the Go4 down.

Destroying the palace rather than the whole city seems more appropriate, Cayleb won't play into Clyntahn's hands with anything near what could be claimed as an atrocity.

L

Henry Brown wrote:

EdThomas wrote:Bit of a rant follows
Not sure where this Thirsk-bashing is coming from. This is from Snippet 6. You know, theone before this one!!!
"Gorath Bay’s temperature seldom fell below freezing, yet it could be bitterly cold in winter, especially for anyone out on its waters. The bay’s cold snaps, with their raw, biting chill, might last for five-days, despite its southern location. That was what had caused so much sickness among Gwyllym Manthyr’s half-starved, half-naked crews when they were confined in the prison hulks.

Oh, yes, Thirsk thought. The bay can be cruel, especially when human spite sees a chance to make it worse.

His jaw tightened as he remembered that winter, remembered his shame and the way the Inquisition had countermanded his orders to provide his prisoners — his prisoners — with food and healers. That wind-polished sheet of pitiless winter water danced before his eyes again, and he felt the helplessness he’d felt then. Oh, how he’d hated Gorath Bay throughout that cold, bitter winter."

Am I the only one here who remembers THirsk's anger at what the Inquisition was ordering him to do? Were it not for his religious guy (Intendant?) Thirsk would have ended up in the Inquisition's loving clutches. He knows the Inquisition is watching his children and their families to keep him in line. He has to make sure his young whiz kid doesn't go too far, or too fast and run afoul of the Proscriptions, as well.

THirsk is one of the most honorable characters in the series and I'm taking personal offense at folks impugning him for actions that he was ordered to do when opposing those orders would have accomplished nothing but his own demise and probably even the deaths by torture of his children and their families.

Are we reading the same books?

I agree. I see Thirsk as a good, honorable man and commander who is stuck in the service of a bad cause. And if he was the only one at risk, I think he might try to push the issue more. But his family is under the "protection" of the inquisition. So if he rocks the boat too much then they might suffer.

However, he is a capable strategist and technician. Even if we have not yet seen it in snippets, I would be highly surprised if he is not searching for a way to get his family to safety. And if he can ever find a way to pull that off, the Kingdom of Dohlar and the CoG better watch out. Because in addition to being highly capable, it seems to me that Thirsk is becoming more and more disillusioned with the political situation. If he is ever free to act as he wants, it could be the biggest surprise since Shannon Foraker's "Oops" in Ashes of Victory.

McGuiness wrote:Now that we know how ancient and widespread Aivah's organization is, the possibility of it having cells in Dohlar seems more likely. Toss in the help of a disguised seijin or two, and the dozens of inquisitors "protecting" Thirsk's family could come to sudden and untimely ends, after which his family is ghosted away to freedom. (Preferably while he has the fleet out chasing the ICN.) When the schooner from the Inquisition arrives at his flagship to demand his arrest, they're going to receive a very cold (or would that be a very hot?) reception from his officers and crew.

Given that Thirsk seems to have officers and crew that respect him, would anyone care to guess how they'd respond if some of those "mysterious broadsheets" turned up in places they go off-duty which just happened to mention the imprisonment of Thirsk's family and gave a rather detailed description (courtesy of Aiviah's organisation) of where they where being kept and how many guards there where?

Frankly, I suspect the MWW has something more entertaining in mind but there many possible ways the whole Thirsk situation could pan out.