"King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art

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"King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
by Dilandu » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:21 am
Dilandu Admiral Posts: 2541 Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm Location: Russia	Well, there she is: "King Haarahld VI", fast battleship/superiority demonstrator as i could describe her. Full version: http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2014/ ... 81e9mw.png http://alternathistory.org.ua/files/use ... ser/KH.png http://dilandu.deviantart.com/art/King- ... a_recent=1 ------------------------------ Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave, Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave. (Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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by Dilandu » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:21 am

Posts: 2541
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

Well, there she is: "King Haarahld VI", fast battleship/superiority demonstrator as i could describe her.

Full version:

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2014/ ... 81e9mw.png

http://alternathistory.org.ua/files/use ... ser/KH.png

http://dilandu.deviantart.com/art/King- ... a_recent=1

------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)

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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
by evilauthor » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:52 am
evilauthor Captain of the List Posts: 724 Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:51 pm	SIX smoke stacks? Really? Also, pity the poor sailor stuck on lookout duty in the REAR crow's nest.
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art

by evilauthor » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:52 am

evilauthor
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SIX smoke stacks? Really?

Also, pity the poor sailor stuck on lookout duty in the REAR crow's nest.

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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
by Dilandu » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:01 am
Dilandu Admiral Posts: 2541 Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm Location: Russia	evilauthor wrote:SIX smoke stacks? Really? What are you expected? They need 24,5 knots on the ship with 131 m lenght and 23 m beam. It's only a 5,69 solution. They need A LOT OF boilers to do that. Also, pity the poor sailor stuck on lookout duty in the REAR crow's nest. Yeah, that would be a problem. ------------------------------ Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave, Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave. (Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art

by Dilandu » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:01 am

Dilandu
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Posts: 2541
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

evilauthor wrote:SIX smoke stacks? Really?

What are you expected? They need 24,5 knots on the ship with 131 m lenght and 23 m beam. It's only a 5,69 solution. They need A LOT OF boilers to do that.

Also, pity the poor sailor stuck on lookout duty in the REAR crow's nest.

Yeah, that would be a problem.

------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)

Top

Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
by runsforcelery » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:42 am
runsforcelery First Space Lord Posts: 2425 Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:39 am Location: South Carolina	Dilandu wrote:Well, there she is: "King Haarahld VI", fast battleship/superiority demonstrator as i could describe her. Full version: http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2014/ ... 81e9mw.png http://alternathistory.org.ua/files/use ... ser/KH.png http://dilandu.deviantart.com/art/King- ... a_recent=1 Cool! You're still putting the main battery in turrets, though; they're in barbets with shields to save top weight. Also, bear in mind that they're using water tube boilers, not fire tube, which means they aren't going to need as many boilers as you might think. And, finally, they have a transom stern and a forward-angled straight bow. No one in Charis sees any reason to make them look any more like something from the 1890s than works with their requirements. They have a single military mast forward of the funnels (because the after position would be smoked out pretty badly even with only three funnels. And as I think I pointed out, the speed listed is their top speed, to be maintained for no more than 8 hours at a time. Aside from that, this is great! "Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art

by runsforcelery » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:42 am

runsforcelery
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Posts: 2425
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Location: South Carolina

Dilandu wrote:Well, there she is: "King Haarahld VI", fast battleship/superiority demonstrator as i could describe her.

Full version:

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2014/ ... 81e9mw.png

http://alternathistory.org.ua/files/use ... ser/KH.png

http://dilandu.deviantart.com/art/King- ... a_recent=1

Cool! You're still putting the main battery in turrets, though; they're in barbets with shields to save top weight. Also, bear in mind that they're using water tube boilers, not fire tube, which means they aren't going to need as many boilers as you might think. And, finally, they have a transom stern and a forward-angled straight bow. No one in Charis sees any reason to make them look any more like something from the 1890s than works with their requirements. They have a single military mast forward of the funnels (because the after position would be smoked out pretty badly even with only three funnels. And as I think I pointed out, the speed listed is their top speed, to be maintained for no more than 8 hours at a time.

Aside from that, this is great! :lol:

"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.

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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
by Dilandu » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:57 am
Dilandu Admiral Posts: 2541 Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm Location: Russia	runsforcelery wrote: Cool! Thanks! runsforcelery wrote: You're still putting the main battery in turrets, though; they're in barbets with shields to save top weight. Er, no: they are barbettes with cylindrical shields, like 1890th US monitors. runsforcelery wrote: Also, bear in mind that they're using water tube boilers, not fire tube, which means they aren't going to need as many boilers as you might think. And so? All french armoured cruisers used fire-tube boilers; and they have pleny of boilers. To reach 24 knots on the only two screws and triple-expancion machines even temporarely, you need A LOT OF boilers. Especially if they are first boilers even build in more than thousand years, on the industry, build for less than two years. Better to put more of them just in case that you workers - who never ever build something like that -may made a mistake. runsforcelery wrote:And, finally, they have a transom stern and a forward-angled straight bow. Without ram? For the civilisation that just discover steam and it's mobility advantages? It's just impossible: especially for the navy, that have galleys as a main unit just a decade ago. runsforcelery wrote:No one in Charis sees any reason to make them look any more like something from the 1890s than works with their requirements. No one in Charis have any reason to build them, first of all. Exept for the demonstration of technological superiority and gaining the expirience to the shipyards. So they may include some elements that maybe not ideal, but gave a engineers and construction crews a great expirience of "how to do" or "how NOT to do" somethings. runsforcelery wrote: They have a single military mast forward of the funnels And if it would be hit and destroyed? Two mast is the rational minimum for observation and battle control, especially without electricity. But ok, i could replace the rear mast with something loghter... ------------------------------ Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave, Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave. (Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art

by Dilandu » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:57 am

Dilandu
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Posts: 2541
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

runsforcelery wrote:
Cool!

Thanks!

runsforcelery wrote: You're still putting the main battery in turrets, though; they're in barbets with shields to save top weight.

Er, no: they are barbettes with cylindrical shields, like 1890th US monitors.

runsforcelery wrote:
Also, bear in mind that they're using water tube boilers, not fire tube, which means they aren't going to need as many boilers as you might think.

And so? All french armoured cruisers used fire-tube boilers; and they have pleny of boilers. To reach 24 knots on the only two screws and triple-expancion machines even temporarely, you need A LOT OF boilers. Especially if they are first boilers even build in more than thousand years, on the industry, build for less than two years. Better to put more of them just in case that you workers - who never ever build something like that -may made a mistake.

runsforcelery wrote:And, finally, they have a transom stern and a forward-angled straight bow.

Without ram? For the civilisation that just discover steam and it's mobility advantages? It's just impossible: especially for the navy, that have galleys as a main unit just a decade ago.

runsforcelery wrote:No one in Charis sees any reason to make them look any more like something from the 1890s than works with their requirements.

No one in Charis have any reason to build them, first of all.

Exept for the demonstration of technological superiority and gaining the expirience to the shipyards. So they may include some elements that maybe not ideal, but gave a engineers and construction crews a great expirience of "how to do" or "how NOT to do" somethings.

runsforcelery wrote: They have a single military mast forward of the funnels

And if it would be hit and destroyed? Two mast is the rational minimum for observation and battle control, especially without electricity. But ok, i could replace the rear mast with something loghter...

------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)

Top

Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
by pokermind » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:55 am
pokermind Fleet Admiral Posts: 4002 Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:58 am Location: Jerome, Idaho, USA	May use water tube boilers that can use sea water, you think bunkerage for coal is a problem burkerage for fresh boiler water will dwarf it. Even with condensers you lose fresh water. Also high pressure steam reduces the size of the engine considerably for the same Dragon Power Poker CPO Poker Mind and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat. "Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art

by pokermind » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:55 am

pokermind
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May use water tube boilers that can use sea water, you think bunkerage for coal is a problem burkerage for fresh boiler water will dwarf it. Even with condensers you lose fresh water. Also high pressure steam reduces the size of the engine considerably for the same Dragon Power

Poker

CPO Poker Mind

and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat.

"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.

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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
by lyonheart » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:21 am
lyonheart Fleet Admiral Posts: 4853 Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm	Hi Pokermind, No, the steam engines will use fresh water condensed via the steam engine's heat and powerful pumps if they want the engines to last very long. One of the great things about the steam sailing ships is that steam powered condensers that enabled the crews to avoid running out of drinkable water, thus considerably increasing their operating range, and Safehold already had iron water tanks aboard its galleons before the jihad, as mentioned during Dennys's return to Tellesburg in OAR. From the MTaT description, the KH VII's triple expansion engines will indeed be rather smaller than those of Terra around 1890, so kudos again. I believe the French tumble home designs didn't have much blue water time since hey were kept close to home since there expected to be used against Britain first, before conceding the German Navy's superiority in design and numbers, not that they were that much of a threat to the RN in the first place, given the Jeune Ecole's preferences, NTM the politicians, for cheaper solutions than building one for one with the RN. L pokermind wrote:May use water tube boilers that can use sea water, you think bunkerage for coal is a problem burkerage for fresh boiler water will dwarf it. Even with condensers you lose fresh water. Also high pressure steam reduces the size of the engine considerably for the same Dragon Power Poker Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art

by lyonheart » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:21 am

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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm

Hi Pokermind,

No, the steam engines will use fresh water condensed via the steam engine's heat and powerful pumps if they want the engines to last very long.

One of the great things about the steam sailing ships is that steam powered condensers that enabled the crews to avoid running out of drinkable water, thus considerably increasing their operating range, and Safehold already had iron water tanks aboard its galleons before the jihad, as mentioned during Dennys's return to Tellesburg in OAR.

From the MTaT description, the KH VII's triple expansion engines will indeed be rather smaller than those of Terra around 1890, so kudos again.

I believe the French tumble home designs didn't have much blue water time since hey were kept close to home since there expected to be used against Britain first, before conceding the German Navy's superiority in design and numbers, not that they were that much of a threat to the RN in the first place, given the Jeune Ecole's preferences, NTM the politicians, for cheaper solutions than building one for one with the RN.

L

pokermind wrote:May use water tube boilers that can use sea water, you think bunkerage for coal is a problem burkerage for fresh boiler water will dwarf it. Even with condensers you lose fresh water. Also high pressure steam reduces the size of the engine considerably for the same Dragon Power

Poker

Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!

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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
by Dilandu » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:27 am
Dilandu Admiral Posts: 2541 Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm Location: Russia	lyonheart wrote:not that they were that much of a threat to the RN in the first place, given the Jeune Ecole's preferences, NTM the politicians, for cheaper solutions than building one for one with the RN. Well, actually they were stronger than Royal Navy in 1898. Their guns have longer barrels and could be reloaded in any train angle, their shells were filled with more powerfull explosives, their tactic were greatly superior and they could put all avaliable ships in sea for 48 hours (in 1896, the Royal Navy needed more than a month to mobilise just the part of reserve). And their torpedo tactics... well, they have torpedo tactics. RN haven't. ------------------------------ Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave, Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave. (Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art

by Dilandu » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:27 am

Dilandu
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Posts: 2541
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

lyonheart wrote:not that they were that much of a threat to the RN in the first place, given the Jeune Ecole's preferences, NTM the politicians, for cheaper solutions than building one for one with the RN.

Well, actually they were stronger than Royal Navy in 1898.

Their guns have longer barrels and could be reloaded in any train angle, their shells were filled with more powerfull explosives, their tactic were greatly superior and they could put all avaliable ships in sea for 48 hours (in 1896, the Royal Navy needed more than a month to mobilise just the part of reserve). And their torpedo tactics... well, they have torpedo tactics. RN haven't.

------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)

Top

Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
by pokermind » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:53 am
pokermind Fleet Admiral Posts: 4002 Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:58 am Location: Jerome, Idaho, USA	Sea water using boilers may be short lived, but will not effect the engines. The higher the pressure the smaller the piston needed to provide the same force it's a direct part of the equation IE F = P x A re-arranging A = F / P thus the higher the P the smaller the Area of the piston needed In a closed system you lose water, the crew drinks it, the whistle vents steam to the atmosphere, leaking stuffing boxes on piston rods vent steam to the atmosphere etc. Provision to clean out tubes will increase the useful life of a sea water using boiler. Poker CPO Poker Mind and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat. "Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art

by pokermind » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:53 am

pokermind
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Posts: 4002
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:58 am
Location: Jerome, Idaho, USA

Sea water using boilers may be short lived, but will not effect the engines. The higher the pressure the smaller the piston needed to provide the same force it's a direct part of the equation IE F = P x A re-arranging A = F / P thus the higher the P the smaller the Area of the piston needed

In a closed system you lose water, the crew drinks it, the whistle vents steam to the atmosphere, leaking stuffing boxes on piston rods vent steam to the atmosphere etc. Provision to clean out tubes will increase the useful life of a sea water using boiler.

Poker

CPO Poker Mind

and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat.

"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.

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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
by Dilandu » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:05 am
Dilandu Admiral Posts: 2541 Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm Location: Russia	pokermind wrote:Sea water using boilers may be short lived, but will not effect the engines. The higher the pressure the smaller the piston needed to provide the same force it's a direct part of the equation IE F = P x A re-arranging A = F / P thus the higher the P the smaller the Area of the piston needed In a closed system you lose water, the crew drinks it, the whistle vents steam to the atmosphere, leaking stuffing boxes on piston rods vent steam to the atmosphere etc. Provision to clean out tubes will increase the useful life of a sea water using boiler. Poker It may be true for British Empire, that have a sufficient repair capabilites on Malta, Canada, India, Australia and Hong Kong. But for Charis, who haven't ANY forward industrial base sufficient to this kind of machinery, it would be pretty hard to replace or even simply repair the boilers out of Delthak. ------------------------------ Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave, Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave. (Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art

by Dilandu » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:05 am

Dilandu
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

pokermind wrote:Sea water using boilers may be short lived, but will not effect the engines. The higher the pressure the smaller the piston needed to provide the same force it's a direct part of the equation IE F = P x A re-arranging A = F / P thus the higher the P the smaller the Area of the piston needed In a closed system you lose water, the crew drinks it, the whistle vents steam to the atmosphere, leaking stuffing boxes on piston rods vent steam to the atmosphere etc. Provision to clean out tubes will increase the useful life of a sea water using boiler.

Poker

It may be true for British Empire, that have a sufficient repair capabilites on Malta, Canada, India, Australia and Hong Kong. But for Charis, who haven't ANY forward industrial base sufficient to this kind of machinery, it would be pretty hard to replace or even simply repair the boilers out of Delthak.

------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)

Top

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"King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art