Bad Wormholes?

n7axw wrote:

Hutch wrote:..... HHm.. a thought, what do you think of them giving Torch a boost to their economy by using it as a possible fleet base? If I remember right, Torch is outside of the SL, but close enough it would make a decent staging base. It wouldn't have to be a large base, but it would give the GA, and in this case the RH an excuse to project their power, as well as giving the Torchers (Torchites? Torchies?) access to modern tech and technicians that could teach them how to use/make the things they need. Say the base is under lease for 100 years. that gives the GA an out if someone brings it up and gives the GA a damned good reason to have forces staged in the Torch system to keep an eye on the wormhole as well as that quadrant of the SL (and to give the Mayan sector governor aid if he needs it). It seems to solve several problems and won't inconvenient the GA that much. Haven could foot the bill for this too since they are closer than the SEM without using the wormholes.

Ummmm, based on Cauldron of Ghosts, it looks like Torch is more interested in the budding Erewhon/Maya Sector alignment (with Haven as a silent ally). Makes sense, as those are it's nearest neighbors and likely trading/development partners.

Not that the GA will be ignored, not with Berry and Princess Ruth around, but I see a closer relationship with the Maya/Erewhon folks in their future.

We shall see, eventually.

Hi Hutch,

I remember reading that too. And it does indeed make sense. But that doesn't necessarily exclude the idea since in all probability the two groups will be on good terms and cooperating together.

Don

I can see that and it would be a way for the SEM to avoid their blatant fingerprints in the sector. Letting Haven sponsor/be the impetus behind it would make sense and I think despite a lot of Sollies, Haven scares them a lot less than the SEM does. Even if the RH is now allied to the SEM.

dreamrider wrote:

kzt wrote:Given that forts don't have hyper drives, I suspect that the problem will be resolved by the time the forts can maneuver themselves to Torch.

Manticore has relocated forts before. In the case I seem to recall, they may have used modular forts that were towed to position for final assembly.

Further, do we KNOW that there are no relocatable forts with hyper capability? They certainly have impellers (not that that says anything about supporting hyper capability.) A design for a relocatable fort, at least with the capability to be moved through the MWHJ, would seem to make imminent sense for Manticore to have at least studied.

Nah, the current generation manticore forts are modular. They can certainly be disassembled and reassembled at a new site. Hence the smilie.

However, the ships you would use for that are doing important work, and all the existing forts are securing places that matter. So until they can build new forts (how far down the work queue do you think THAT is?) no, they won't.

kzt wrote:

dreamrider wrote:Given that forts don't have hyper drives, I suspect that the problem will be resolved by the time the forts can maneuver themselves to Torch.

Manticore has relocated forts before. In the case I seem to recall, they may have used modular forts that were towed to position for final assembly.

Further, do we KNOW that there are no relocatable forts with hyper capability? They certainly have impellers (not that that says anything about supporting hyper capability.) A design for a relocatable fort, at least with the capability to be moved through the MWHJ, would seem to make imminent sense for Manticore to have at least studied.

Nah, the current generation manticore forts are modular. They can certainly be disassembled and reassembled at a new site. Hence the smilie.

However, the ships you would use for that are doing important work, and all the existing forts are securing places that matter. So until they can build new forts (how far down the work queue do you think THAT is?) no, they won't.

That's why I was thinking that the RH could take this up. They have the resources to spare. Whereas the SEM is still rebuilding its industrial manufacturing base.

kzt wrote:Given that forts don't have hyper drives, I suspect that the problem will be resolved by the time the forts can maneuver themselves to Torch.

n7axw wrote:

dreamrider wrote:
Manticore has relocated forts before. In the case I seem to recall, they may have used modular forts that were towed to position for final assembly.

Further, do we KNOW that there are no relocatable forts with hyper capability? They certainly have impellers (not that that says anything about supporting hyper capability.) A design for a relocatable fort, at least with the capability to be moved through the MWHJ, would seem to make imminent sense for Manticore to have at least studied.

dreamrider

IIRC, they did indeed assemble modular forts at both Lynx and Trevor's Star. But both of those were just on the other side of the wormhole.

But you do have to have Warshawskis to get through a wormhole... so maybe you could get them into hyper and transport them that way.

At any rate, by way of comparison to Lynx and Trevor's Star, Torch is a long way away.

If you were going to look at it in those terms, it would probably be more practical to use SDs, maybe Sphinxes or Gryphons slightly modified to add missile links. (Yes, I know, crew intensive, Yes, I know, overkill.)

But looked at in another way, maybe an opportunity to train Torchies on the job in larger numbers. And given the expansion of their drug industry, they probably have the bucks to finance the project or at least make a substantial contribution.

One way or another, the goal should be to beef up Torch's navy to the point where they could assume the responsibility themselves. This might be one way to go about it.

Don

If you really wanted to relocate a completed fort, and there weren't any grav waves in the way, you should be able to jump it into hyper by pulling the same trick that the Peeps used in HotQ, redlining a nearby ship's hyper generator. "Valentine had pointed out that both Thunder and Principality had far more powerful hyper generators than any Masadan starship. In fact, their generators were powerful enough to extend their translation fields over six kilometers beyond their own hulls if he redlined them."

Even if that is a 3km radius that's big enough to suck a fort up into hyper with you. But you probably wouldn't want to screw around with trying to tow it. Just let it use its impellers to slowly build up to speed. Now it might not have the right sensors to watch for grav waves, so you'd keep a normal hyper ship in company with it (and also to jump it back down to n-space at the destination)


It'd take a while to move, but if the resources aren't quickly available to break it down into freighter sized loads then trekking through hyper, even at sub-100g accel could get you there faster that waiting to do it the normal way.

Theisman and Yu pulled that towing trick with LACs. We're talking here about forts at least twice the size of an SD. It looks a bit unlikely to me. At very best it looks like a whole lot of trouble. If you want forts, beef up some older SDs with a few more control links, send them out to Torch with some pods tractored inside their wedges and park them in position and use them as forts. It would be a lot less trouble and more than adequate to do the job, overkill, even... But maybe overkill is under rated.

Don

n7axw wrote:Theisman and Yu pulled that towing trick with LACs. We're talking here about forts at least twice the size of an SD. It looks a bit unlikely to me. At very best it looks like a whole lot of trouble. If you want forts, beef up some older SDs with a few more control links, send them out to Torch with some pods tractored inside their wedges and park them in position and use them as forts. It would be a lot less trouble and more than adequate to do the job, overkill, even... But maybe overkill is under rated.

Don

Hence my original comment on use of the surplus SD's as temporary / impromptu fortresses.
True they are not as effective as a 16 to 30 MTon fortress such as at the Manty termini, but they should "hold the fort" while modern fortresses are built, either by Manticore (Hauptman Enterprises), Erehwon, or Haven.

-- Stewart