HFQ Official Snippet #7

Back when the screw galleys were being discussed in the forum 'many' considered that spar torpedoes would be a natural accompaniment and expected (or feared) Zhwaigair would invent them, perhaps under the influence of 'The Baltic War' (the posters that is! )

I have some sympathy for Thirsk

He couldn't help the country he was born in or the beliefs that he was raised with. BUT wether we have sympathy or not there are practical considerations, he unlike many of the leadership of Dohlar is a man of integrity who has a brain and can think.- And his integrity was willing to make himself a target of the Inqusition because of his soft mushy hearted concern for hertics.

Sooner or later Charis is going to have to deal with the some leaders who live in the Temple controlled lands, or formally temple copntrolled lands.

I would rather deal with Thisrk than with the king.

So for me after Charis wins, the King and other's get the chop, but Thirsk can be left behind to run the country.

Remember to Merlin the Gababda and Langhornes belief system are the real enemies not Thirsk.

Does anyone think that a certain lady of our acquaintance might look to 'secure' Thirsk's family from under the noses of the Inquisition? We know that Merlin is convinced that he needs people on the side of the 'loyalists' to start thinking for themselves, showing initiative on inventions and so on - and although from a purely personal basis Merlin and Charis are opposed to Thirsk, Thirsk is just the sort of person that is needed for a proper reformation of the Church, at least on the government/official side of things?

The problem with anybody "securing" his family without his OK is that he'll either likely become a Dead Man Walking or possibly becomes extremely annoyed.

If Thirsk's family goes missing and the Inquisition knows that it wasn't them dealing with the family, the Inquisition will suspect Thirsk of arranging the disappearance and if Thirsk hasn't disappeared as well, the Inquisition likely will have him killed.

Of course, if they disappear and the Inquisition decides Thirsk wasn't involved, then Thirsk may suspect that they were kidnapped to force him to betray his kingdom.

Now some people here are suspecting that he's arranging their disappearance on his own, so if he is, it's very likely Merlin/Owl knows about it and have made plans to assist in their escape.

Bahzellstudent wrote:Does anyone think that a certain lady of our acquaintance might look to 'secure' Thirsk's family from under the noses of the Inquisition? We know that Merlin is convinced that he needs people on the side of the 'loyalists' to start thinking for themselves, showing initiative on inventions and so on - and although from a purely personal basis Merlin and Charis are opposed to Thirsk, Thirsk is just the sort of person that is needed for a proper reformation of the Church, at least on the government/official side of things?

Re Thirsk's family
Yes, the logic of the situation is that either they all stay in place or he and they both defect to the CoGA's enemies. Nothing else makes sense. The family of a loyal son of mother church has nothing to fear from the Inquisition, so anyone who removes his family from their care is clearly a traitor. 'The bad boys kidnapped my family and it was nothing to do with me'? Good luck trying to persuade Clyntahn of that!

Actually there is one other scenario that might occur, Thirsk dies in action, or sails off expecting to do so and that activates his 'get out of jail free' plan for his family. At that point he is consigning himself to the punishment if he survives the action in order to ensure their safety.

BobG wrote:AncientMariner wrote:

I think most of us like Thirsk. He is a man of honour and duty. There's been speculation in past threads that he might defect if he can save his family doing it. I however don't see that happening. He is too loyal to Dohlar, even if he disagrees with the kingdom's decisions.

BarryKirk replied

Thirsk reminds me of Warner Caslet.

I can agree with that.

-- Bob G

I can't. Caslet, faced with a murderous witch who was trying to murder enemy combatants in direct contravention of both honor and law, actually acted.

Thirsk just whines about how awful it is. OK, he does a tiny bit more than that, but not remotely enough.

Granted, Caslet didn't actually defect until he was already a dead man walking if he didn't. But he still did SOMETHING more than just piss and moan. And smuggling out letters doesn't count. Caslet's prisoners actually got to talk to their captors and see a friendly face every now and then, got at least minimal medical care, and didn't die in their jail cells from starvation... much less torture, deliberate mutilation, or being burnt alive.

I realize Thirsk can't actually do anything to STOP that. But he continues to support it. At least semi-unwillingly, and perhaps with horrible pains of conscience. Big whoop-dee-do. Those who actively aid and abet such acts are just as worthy of a bullet as those who actively commit them.

Alistair wrote:I would rather deal with Thisrk than with the king.

So for me after Charis wins, the King and other's get the chop, but Thirsk can be left behind to run the country.

Remember to Merlin the Gababda and Langhornes belief system are the real enemies not Thirsk.

However, I guess I do actually agree with this side of things. I would prefer him to the current crop of useless pigheaded selfish self-centered useless twits running his country.

Then again, that's an awfully low bar to have to step over. Even in that pile of sewage there have to be at least two other low-level noblemen (probably 20+) who could accomplish that minor feat.

I realize it's not common for Weber to give us MUCH in the way of details until he has to. But he's also well-aware of how Thirsk is seen, both by those with sympathy for him and those without. This is one case in which he really should have put in some sort of a scene -- brief, imprecise, laden with almost no details, but something -- to show Thirsk had finally found his honor enough to realize he HAD to stop pissing and moaning and actually act. And that starts with finding a way to free his family. Which probably means contracting some murders, but it's that or leave them as hostages AND continue to support loathsome evil monsters AND guarantee that his family will still die anyway once he's outlived his usefulness.

Faced with that sort of a catch-22, this man should have acted a long time ago.

EdThomas wrote:

bunyipbelle wrote:Thank you RFC for the snippet.
"less than a dozen men - the most senior an army lieutenant-had escaped the debacle by commandeering a sixteen-foot sailing dinghy , somehow evading the Charisian pickets, and crossing the six hundred and seventy miles of stormy salt water between claw island and the Harchongese province of Kyznetzov"
This part of the snippet reminds me of Lieutenant William Bligh's voyage after the Mutiny on the Bounty. Bligh and eighteen loyal crewmen in a 23 foot (7 m) launch travelled 3,618 nautical miles to Timor which was the nearest Eurropean settlement. It took them 47 days.

Comparing the Lt's escape in a sailing dinghy to CPT Bligh's accomplishment is a bit of apples and oranges. Sailing dinghies are basically light, shallow hulls designed to sail on the surface with lateral resistance coming from a centerboard or retractable keel, rather than the hull itself. Lifeboats have a deeper, narrower, heavier hull which is inherently more stable. Dinghies sit on the water while lifeboats sit in the water. Think of a 1x6 board with the 6" side resting on the water as the sailing dinghy. Think of a lifeboat as a 2x4 sitting in the water with the 4" side projecting down into the water. Without getting into a complicated discussion about form stability let me say, in this humble sailor's opinion, the Lt's voyage is an incredible effort and, should he survive the Inquisition, Safeholdian seamen will raise a glass to his accomplishment for centuries to come.

Even more so, More than likely the sailing dingy probably had at most a basic compass ie with only the cardinal points. Where as Bligh had both a ships portable compass a sextant and an area chart.

I wonder if Thirsk is about to act. With the assistance of that inquisitor who has been protecting him.
If they took over and declared that Clyntyn was the Shan Wei demon at the heart of the schosm and that they were following the dictates ofvthe true church yadda yadda.

Could make for an interesting mess at least.

kbus888 wrote:=2014/09/29=

As far as I know, no one on Claw island is a member of the inner circle.

One obvious candidate is Hektor. The KHVIIs could pick him up when they stop to refuel in Corisande. Of course he's only a lieutenant so it's kinda hard for to see him giving fleet-level orders. If you explain to Sharpfield what Hektor can provide then you've basically inducted him into the Inner Circle and he'll have his own comm.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rock Point goes with the KHVIIs when the time comes. After what happened to Manthyr and his men there's no way the EoC will send ships deep into the Gulf, no matter how the odds have shifted. Ideally, I think they should have two Inner Circle members in the Gulf - one with the main fleet and one with the KHVIIs. That way they could take maximum advantage of the Cruisers' greater mobility. Maybe a hammer & anvil approach: use the main fleet to bring out Thirsk's entire fleet for a major engagement and swing around with the KHVIIs. Do it right and they might break the Dohlaran's morale and end the fight almost before it begins.

Whatever happens up to this point, I will bet a large amount of money that Cayleb will be with the fleet when it visits Gorath to 'negotiate' Dohlars exit from the jihad. Personally, I don't want to see the entire country punished for the fecklessness of its leaders. My own taste runs more to focused 'messages' - say, one ten-inch shell into King Rahnyld's palace for each of Gwylym Manthyr's men turned over to the Inquisition.

jms

OlorinNight wrote:

lyonheart wrote:
We don't know if the reference to Ahlverez commanding "half the field army" included Rychtyr's force after Thesmar, or included the almost 20,000 reinforcements he received at Fort Tairys, so "half the field army" might be as much as 120-140,000 men, and doesn't include the local defensive militias, which in Siddarmark's case were 50% larger than the regular active army.

Yes, but the republic is a democracy, with a power coming from the people. Dolhar is not, so it's not sure if they decided to create militia or not. This kind of system usually try to avoid giving weapons to the people if they can avoid it.

And they were probably already struggling to equip their field army with modern weapons. Militias, if there was any, were probably a very low priority (after all, they serve primarily as a defensive measure, and the jihad is on the offensive, right?). They probably do not have rifles, and it's even less likely that they have artillery. In those conditions, the only thing they could be used for is to make the charisians spend more powder...

Remember, the armories of the Border States, Dohlar an Desnair were raided to exhaustion to arm the Harchongese Contingent. There are virtually no weapons available to Dohlar other than the existing Alvarez arms, the arms at or headed to Everton. Thus my thread about all the eggs in one basket. Dohlar is toast!