Rediscovery of Technology

"All the land" must include Mount Everest, right? 29,000 and a few feet above current sea level, plus at least another hundred feet to ensure it's good and submerged. It's simple to divide that by 40 and determine that it had to rain almost 730 feet a day - over 30 feet an hour, over 6 inches a minute. 6 inches an HOUR is considered a horrendous downpour, usually associated with Category 3 and above hurricanes. The storm clouds required to support a drenchpour of that magnitude would extend thousands of miles out into space, and contain about 2 1/2 times the total amount of water that exists on the entire planet.

You might be taking all of the land in the world a bit too literally. For example there are many descriptions of Alexander conquering the whole world, when in fact he conquered a tiny part of it. But to people living in that time with limited transportation capabilities, he did indeed conquer the whole world. The description of Noah's flood would have also been written by people with very limited transportation capabilities. If the majority of the middle east was flooded, as far as the Noah and his family were concerned, that would be the whole world. It certainly would have been the whole of their world: their homes, their trading partners, etc... The only mountain that we know for sure that would have been in the flood region would be Ararat as that is specifically mentioned in the text and while people generally refer to Mount Ararat, the actual text is plural Mountains of Ararat referring to the whole mountain range. The highest of the mountains of Ararat, Mount Ararat itself is only about 17,000 feet but by the time they found it, it (and at least some of the other mountains in the range) were above water. Who knows how long it was above water, perhaps it never did flood.

But while interesting from an intellectual point of view (and fun to discuss) the exact details of how the flood occurred, the exact area covered etc etc aren't really important. The important part is what it teaches us about the nature of God and God's expectations of us.

"Oh, no, you got me started on Noah's Ark. People may not thank you for that."

Since the account states that there were "all the fountains of the great deep broken up," what reason do you have for assuming that land and ocean levels had to be constant?

In what ways have the assumptions of event times been tested? What is the validity of said tests?

I note that the killer question, "Where did the material for the sedimentary rocks come from?" has not been addressed in any way.

BTW, Mount Everest is largely sedimentary, a result of the collision of India with Asia.

BTW, experiment shows that fresh water fish cannot live in ocean water. However, a 3 foot deep outdoor tank was half filled with sea water, then very gently half filled with fresh water. Both sea fish and fresh water were introduced. The waters stayed apart with a slowly growing brackish layer. Each fish stayed in its own kind of water and survived over the summer. This is an easily copied experiment.

Good reliable tests trump ANY idea.

DDHv wrote:"Oh, no, you got me started on Noah's Ark. People may not thank you for that."

Since the account states that there were "all the fountains of the great deep broken up," what reason do you have for assuming that land and ocean levels had to be constant?

In what ways have the assumptions of event times been tested? What is the validity of said tests?

Your book claims it happened within the last 6,000 years.

I note that the killer question, "Where did the material for the sedimentary rocks come from?" has not been addressed in any way.

Plate tectonics and four billion years of erosion.

BTW, Mount Everest is largely sedimentary, a result of the collision of India with Asia.

BTW, experiment shows that fresh water fish cannot live in ocean water. However, a 3 foot deep outdoor tank was half filled with sea water, then very gently half filled with fresh water. Both sea fish and fresh water were introduced. The waters stayed apart with a slowly growing brackish layer. Each fish stayed in its own kind of water and survived over the summer. This is an easily copied experiment.

Good reliable tests trump ANY idea.

And when the water is stirred up by the winds of a gigantic hurricane? Condensing that much rain releases huge amounts of energy.

Face it, it's a fairy tale filled with things we now know to be impossible.

And when its added rather violently, as in a storm, or like real life, as opposed to a simple experiment? and when its mixed by currents, winds, and land shapings forcing currents to mix the water?


We dont have to assume land levels and sea levels were constant, as we have geological evidence that accurately gices us the actual height differences and the changes over time of the land and sea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah%27s_Ark#Ark.27s_geometrics Note how many times the myth of the genesis flood has been proven wrong, by multiple branches of science, in multiple ways. It may be metaphorical, it certainly wasnt hitorical.

DDHv wrote:"Oh, no, you got me started on Noah's Ark. People may not thank you for that."

Since the account states that there were "all the fountains of the great deep broken up," what reason do you have for assuming that land and ocean levels had to be constant?

In what ways have the assumptions of event times been tested? What is the validity of said tests?

I note that the killer question, "Where did the material for the sedimentary rocks come from?" has not been addressed in any way.

BTW, Mount Everest is largely sedimentary, a result of the collision of India with Asia.

BTW, experiment shows that fresh water fish cannot live in ocean water. However, a 3 foot deep outdoor tank was half filled with sea water, then very gently half filled with fresh water. Both sea fish and fresh water were introduced. The waters stayed apart with a slowly growing brackish layer. Each fish stayed in its own kind of water and survived over the summer. This is an easily copied experiment.

Good reliable tests trump ANY idea.

Forty Days of rain would only produce a thin layer of fresh water on top? Waves only stir up the top of the water.

Plate tectonics doesn't solve the problem. How does sediment removal occur allowing erosion over a large enough area and time to produce the average sediment depth in the known range of 5 to 8 miles? If we assume plate tectonics did it, we must also explain how the older deeper layers are still there, but permitted base rock erosion. Most mountain ranges are sedimentary, pushed up by plate tectonics, although some expose the base rocks. Why aren't the sedimentary strata eroded more than they are, and where are the erosion gullies? The Grand Canyon has several unconformities estimated at hundreds of millions of years. We are expected to believe that in such a long period of time neither large gullies nor deposition occurred?

Thomas Kuhn's classic, "The structure of Scientific Revolutions" notes that a paradigm change doesn't happen easily. It shouldn't! However those with a contradictory paradigm will do experiments not thought of by those following current authority. What old age theorist would send diamonds to a carbon14 laboratory for testing? They would be more likely to reject out of hand the results, which showed detectable amounts of C14.
The Uranium method assumes that no daughter isotopes are originally present. Historical lava flows show long U ages. There is one flowing into the Grand Canyon whose U age is much older than the sedimentary fossil ages of the strata under it.

Fossils are used to date sedimentary strata. But then the strata are used to date the fossils. Circular reasoning?


Dumb mistakes are irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
unless you test your assumptions!

Wow! Your basing your rejection on 6,000 year creation myth. The reason some biblical scholars believe the Earth was created 6,000 years ago is about counting back the genetic lines or family generations. Like that is really reliable!

I can think of ways the Great Flood happening. A comet or asteroid strike hitting the ocean that created a crack that allowed the underground oceans to come out under great pressure! Remember that little oil blowout in Gulf of Mexico just apply that on a grand scale. What if ice shelf in the South pole was hit by a comet or asteroid. Remember we use to have atmospheric pressure of 2. Now the atmospheric pressure of 1.

I can cite where the bible tells us that we have been destroyed more than once! The ancient Hindu Vedic tells of history going back 35,000 years ago! So who really knows what the real truth is?

We had historians tell us that the bible was inaccurate because it did not reflect correct Egyptian history. Opps! They were invaded which caused the separation of North and South Egypt. They were counting both pharohs as separate leaders instead of a divided country!

Just recently, they came out with findings of Nanotechnology that was dated between 16,000 years ago to 350,000 years ago. No I am not going to provide the link. Do your own homework! I am not here to prove God to you but at least get your facts straight about the bible. How many cultures around the world talk about the Great flood? 100, 200, or the correct answer is over 300 cultures have a global flood myth. That fact came from our own historians. They wrote about it, put the story into writing, and carved into: stone, clay, and metal tablets. Our great ancestors wanted us to know that a global flood of some type destroyed us. The Sumerians pre date the creation of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam and they have a global flood myth. The Egyptians had a global flood myth!

Here is another fact, they have discovered a world wide language pre Global flood.....hmmm......read the story of Babel! Where in the bible does it state that we only have been on the planet for 6,000 years. Wait a minute while I look it up.........can't find it! Sounds like a hypothesis or theory rather than actuality! Please get your facts straight instead spewing blind hatred towards religion and God.

Actually, the 6,000 year old Earth legend can be traced back to Archbishop James Ussher, who published the Annales Vereris et Novi Testamenti in which he declared (via considerable calculation and deduction) that the Earth was created on the night preceding Sunday 23rd October, 4004 BC (Proleptic Julian Calender).

If this is true, it indicates two things.

1) The whole business with Dinosaur skeletons is a cosmic joke.
2) The Earth's a Libra.

smr wrote:I can think of ways the Great Flood happening. A comet or asteroid strike hitting the ocean that created a crack that allowed the underground oceans to come out under great pressure! Remember that little oil blowout in Gulf of Mexico just apply that on a grand scale. What if ice shelf in the South pole was hit by a comet or asteroid. Remember we use to have atmospheric pressure of 2. Now the atmospheric pressure of 1.

The problem, dear smr, is that any explanation you want to come up with that turns a bible story into history fact, especially when it comes to cataclysmic events, would leave tons and tons of corroborating evidence all over the place. Since we haven't been able to find anything to corroborate the "global flood 4000 years ago" theory, we kinda have to assume that what was described was either allegorical, or only descriptive of a strictly localized phenomenon.

Also? Yes, the atmospheric pressure used to be much higher. Several million years ago. Certainly not while anything even remotely resembling a human was around.

I can cite where the bible tells us that we have been destroyed more than once! The ancient Hindu Vedic tells of history going back 35,000 years ago! So who really knows what the real truth is?

My guess? Neither of the two. Treating the bible as anything more than a collection of really dated fables is ill-advised.

We had historians tell us that the bible was inaccurate because it did not reflect correct Egyptian history. Opps! They were invaded which caused the separation of North and South Egypt. They were counting both pharohs as separate leaders instead of a divided country!

There are lots of people calling the bible inaccurate for a lot of reasons. Mostly because the places where we can link established and corroborated history to biblical scripture are few and far between, with the most important parts of the bible being wholly unproveable.

Just recently, they came out with findings of Nanotechnology that was dated between 16,000 years ago to 350,000 years ago. No I am not going to provide the link. Do your own homework!

Strange how none of those findings turned up anywhere that wasn't a site dedicated to furthering belief in UFOs, ancient astronauts and other such bullshit.

I am not here to prove God to you but at least get your facts straight about the bible. How many cultures around the world talk about the Great flood? 100, 200, or the correct answer is over 300 cultures have a global flood myth.

Coincidentally, lots of cultures all over the world had their cultural center near large bodies of water. Also? There's no geological evidence to support a global flood myth.

That fact came from our own historians. They wrote about it, put the story into writing, and carved into: stone, clay, and metal tablets. Our great ancestors wanted us to know that a global flood of some type destroyed us. The Sumerians pre date the creation of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam and they have a global flood myth. The Egyptians had a global flood myth!

And? There's still no credible evidence of these floods actually happening on a global scale.

Here is another fact, they have discovered a world wide language pre Global flood.....hmmm......read the story of Babel!

Really? You do need to get into the habit of providing citations. Not just rants.

Where in the bible does it state that we only have been on the planet for 6,000 years. Wait a minute while I look it up.........can't find it! Sounds like a hypothesis or theory rather than actuality! Please get your facts straight instead spewing blind hatred towards religion and God.

As Michael said, those 6000 years are conjecture based on dates and facts mentioned in the bible. It was made by someone who strongly believed in the truthfulness of the bible. It also serves as a reference point for gauging the general reliability of biblical statements concerning historical and scientific fact.

It would be nice to have faith. To just know that you will see departed loved ones again, and that you will all live happily ever after.
Unfortunately I can't suspend the logic circuits in my brain that demand proof not faith before I can accept things. I go to medical specialists to have my health sorted, and to experts in whatever field I can't do myself; knowing that they have had many years of structured learning and experience that was based on provable and repeatable research.
Cherry picking very small anomalies, that have yet to be explained, to try and disprove whole vast well researched topics does not cut it.
As others here have pointed out an unquestioning religious faith seems to go hand in hand with denying climate change, believing various myths, being anti vaccination, and anti fluoridation of water supplies.

Good luck to you if you just know that your group's way of understanding your interpretation of a supreme being is the one true way out of the thousands throughout human history. Sorry I can't join you.

Whether or not the earth is 6000 years old has nothing to do with whether or not the Bible is the revealed truth of God. As mentioned by Michael, the 6000 year number was a human interpretation of the Bible. As a matter of fact individuals who specifically believe in young earth creationism aka the 6000 year old earth are a minority although a vocal one (which correlates with my personal experience in the Christian community so I am inclined to believe it). The rest believe in some other variation of creationism, intelligent design, theistic evolution etc. All different human interpretations of the same document. For those who don't believe in the 6000 year earth, fine I don't either (I actually line up with the theistic evolution belief myself). For those who do, we can disagree on exact mechanics but can agree on the MUCH MORE IMPORTANT part which is the God revealed himself to us through the Bible and the Bible is the ultimate truth. Any errors are not divine but are the result of human misinterpretation.


Note as the following post explains in detail, be careful of poll numbers. Many of the pollsters have been asking sloppy questions, which tend to combine young earth creationists together with other types of creationists and then reporting the whole lot as being young earth creationists.

http://www.skepticblog.org/2014/05/28/h ... are-there/