A Call to Duty (SPOILERS)

Roguevictory wrote:I knew about them filling a role like that of the light cruiser though I thought they were all retired by 1900 PD and had been falling into disfavor since Roger III started focusing on building a navy to fight a war with Haven rather then one geared for anti-pirate missions. My mistake.

Actually, mine. I (mis)spoke without looking at my ship database. There were still some RMN frigates in mothballs in 1900 PD, but none in active service.

Roguevictory wrote:I knew the original Manticoran Victory class Frigates were almost certainly retired by A Call to Arms but I thought there would have been more modern frigates in the RMN at the time.

It would still be surprising IMO if the Volsung didn't have any since IMO the long legs of the class would be very attractive to buyers for a mercenary fleet at the time though I'm not certain if every ship in their fleet was in A Call to Arms or if all the ones there had their type identified

Largely it's a matter of definition. The same basic ship class, with a slight emphasis on cruising range versus armament can be called a frigate or destroyer by different navies. There is a lot more blurring of the lines between classes in this era, especially given the rapid technological changes of the 16 and 17th centuries. It's not quite as simple as saying that if it's in this tonnage range it's a frigate while this tonnage range is a destroyer.

By the mid 1600s PD you'll start to see a lot more commonality between different ship types, their roles and their tonnages. But at this point it's not at all uncommon to see a Frigate in one navy outweigh (and even outfight) a destroyer or light cruiser in another.

Specific to your points above, the Volsungs actual mission role and how they operate strategically and logistically gives them far fewer uses for a frigate (by which I mean "lightly armed, long legs") than one might assume. You'll see more about this in later books, but their particular operating patterns are closer to those of a pirate gang than a regular navy, or even one of the accepted, bonded "Contingency Management Firms" like the one run by Gustav Anderman before he retired.

Interesting. I was thinking that if the planned Manticore operation, namely a single engagement to win the war was a standard mission for the Volsung then they would like frigates because the longer operational range means less need for stopovers when traveling from their base to a staging area or from one mission site to another.

For that matter I also thought that pirates would prefer frigates over destroyers since a frigate's lighter weapons would still be enough against most merchant ships and the longer range allows bigger hunting grounds, longer periods in their hunting grounds, the possibility of putting the hunting grounds at a greater distance from your base thous meaning if there is ever a concentrated effort to hunt you down there is a larger area that the hunters have to check.

I could also see battles being fought and for one reason or another the fact that a battle occurred at all being covered up and all records being sealed or expunged.

Roguevictory wrote:For that matter I also thought that pirates would prefer frigates over destroyers since a frigate's lighter weapons would still be enough against most merchant ships and the longer range allows bigger hunting grounds, longer periods in their hunting grounds, the possibility of putting the hunting grounds at a greater distance from your base thous meaning if there is ever a concentrated effort to hunt you down there is a larger area that the hunters have to check.

You're still thinking in 20th century terms. The Victory-class Frigate had two box-launchers, one spinal laser and two autocannon facing forward. The Protector-class destroyer that replaced them had... two box launchers, one spinal laser and two autocannon facing forward.

A single missile from either ship is capable of killing anything up to a battlecruiser on a direct hit, and even a near-miss will result in a mission kill on smaller ships.

The whole nature of warfare is very different from what we see in the 20th century, which is one of the reasons why one person's frigate might be another person's light cruiser, and either of them can be equally deadly to even something as large as a battleship given the right set of circumstances.

Some classes are indeed longer legged than others, and more often than not those will (regardless of size) be called frigates (or sometimes light cruisers). Some classes have slightly heavier armament for their size, and those are more often referred to as destroyers, but even I have to catch myself sometimes from falling into the trap of applying 20th century terminology to 16th century hardware when it comes to making assumptions about size or capabilities based solely on the name.

tpope wrote:
You're still thinking in 20th century terms. The Victory-class Frigate had two box-launchers, one spinal laser and two autocannon facing forward. The Protector-class destroyer that replaced them had... two box launchers, one spinal laser and two autocannon facing forward.

I just want to thank you for chiming in with the interesting 16th century PD historical perspective on the ship classes.

tpope wrote:
You're still thinking in 20th century terms. The Victory-class Frigate had two box-launchers, one spinal laser and two autocannon facing forward. The Protector-class destroyer that replaced them had... two box launchers, one spinal laser and two autocannon facing forward.

Interesting. I never knew the stats for the early warships had been established honestly much less what they were.

Roguevictory wrote:

tpope wrote:
You're still thinking in 20th century terms. The Victory-class Frigate had two box-launchers, one spinal laser and two autocannon facing forward. The Protector-class destroyer that replaced them had... two box launchers, one spinal laser and two autocannon facing forward.

Interesting. I never knew the stats for the early warships had been established honestly much less what they were.

Tom had to do it over the last two years specifically in support of the Manticore Ascendant Series development starting with the Call to Arms short story.

Do the Frigates also have a 6 missile capacity in each box-launcher like the heavier classes?

My math on the war-shot to practice to empty magazine capacity breakdown in ACtA says they do, but it never hurts to ask those in the know (well, unless they tell you you are wrong of course ).

tpope wrote:You're still thinking in 20th century terms. The Victory-class Frigate had two box-launchers, one spinal laser and two autocannon facing forward. The Protector-class destroyer that replaced them had... two box launchers, one spinal laser and two autocannon facing forward.

hvb wrote:Do the Frigates also have a 6 missile capacity in each box-launcher like the heavier classes?

The frigates started with twin launchers (2 missiles per box, 4 per frigate) when they arrived in the Manticore System. There were plans to upgrade the missiles themselves and put on quad-boxes, and I honestly can't remember if they happened before they were retired or not (I don't have my notes open and it's been a while since I've thought about them). They can only control a maximum of 2 missiles at a time however, just like their more modern cousins.

The older ships and corvettes you see flying around in the battle in ACTA have quad launchers, so a maximum of 8 missiles per ship, 4 per launcher. Most, likewise, are capable of controlling no more than two missiles at a time. Ships like the Salamander-class had magazine-fed single-arm launchers, which is where I think you are getting your 6-missile capacity, since each of those was fed by a 6-missile internal rotary magazine.

Since you can't fire a missile through a sidewall, and the "flicker" trick is still relatively new and not very reliable, those turreted arms were falling out of favor by the mid 1500s and being replaced by fixed forward launchers (magazine fed or internal cells) that were either conventional boosters or EM-drivers.

The net result of all of this is a confusing hodge-podge of design decisions in any given Navy (except for the very few that have enough resources to keep on the cutting edge) and it's going to get worse once the first sidewall gunport generator appears on the scene, as suddenly all of those "useless" turreted launchers that can train into the broadside suddenly become a lot less useless.

In some cases we'll see navies, or individual ships classes that have been obsolete for almost a century find ways to get refitted and leapfrog some of the more modern classes that succeeded them.

But that's far in the future. Book 7 or 8 of the trilogy I think...

tpope wrote:
But that's far in the future. Book 7 or 8 of the trilogy I think...

Something to look forward to