Robert A. Heinlein and todays readers

So after rereading through Starship Troopers again, I am wondering how many would consider one of the so called masters of Sci-Fi if he wrote his books today and his views. How do you consider his points on child rearing, is it OK to have public flogging in schools? How about a right to vote only through civil service? The second question I can actually find some merit in, but still find faults.

Hmm you should try his 'The Moon is Harsh Mistress' for weird political ideas. One all laws require a 77% super majority to pass, but only a 33% minority to repeal. I must state I found his idea though provoking If you can't get 77% of the people to support a law it must have problems to 33% of the population. His idea that only those who have served the state should have a say in the policies of the state since they know the consequences of such decisions as war and peace it makes one think too.

As to flogging it's kind of old fashioned now, but then the no punishment until you're 18 then the criminal justice system kicks in is also a growing problem.

Today in the USA things are so screwed up because, among other things, too many people vote who have not earned to right. Also consider the founding fathers of our, (USA) great nation said that only land owning tax paying individuals could vote. Only a few women qualified way back then.

"Something that is given/accepted freely has no value?" Still holds true today? Too many people here have the right to vote and nearly all of them are not qualified and will nearly always vote their own $self interest$. I think Mr. Heinlein was warning us ... way back then. Citizenship must be earned.

Even Mr. Jefferson said that if too many undeserving people vote their self interest, then the Republic is doomed. Or something to that effect. Democracy is mob rule. A Constitutional Republic is what we intended. Oh well ... over 225 years in the sun ain't bad. HB of CJ (old coot) Cm.

I feel horrible to have to say that we have less than 5 years before the global economic collapse. Ten times worserer than our Great Depression. Yikes! Just me. Too many economic bubbles, and USA money printing by the "Fed". Our government is gun decking our economy. A correction is coming.

Heinlein was and is one of my life guides. I don't agree with quite a few of his views (for example I'm not into incest), but much of what he said has merit.
In Time Enough For Love he lists the skills that any adult male should have, and I set out to master all of them.

It was supremely ironic that the hippie movement claimed him as a guru after Stranger in A Strange Land came out, as his political views were so different to that culture's.
In regard to his writing style I'm reminded of Isaac Newton's quote "If I seem to see far it is because I'm standing on the shoulders of giants". He was a great story teller with a very interesting philosophy but later authors are more polished.

Daryl wrote:Heinlein was and is one of my life guides. I don't agree with quite a few of his views (for example I'm not into incest), but much of what he said has merit.
In Time Enough For Love he lists the skills that any adult male should have, and I set out to master all of them.

Is this the one you aspire to, Daryl?

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”--From the Notebooks of Lazarus Long

One of my favorites, too. Balancing accounts, taking and givng orders, cooperate and act alone, solving equations and analyzing problems are done to date. Cooking a tasty meal is subject to debate . I doubt I will be in a position to fight efficiently, but there is still hope in dying gallantly.

It was supremely ironic that the hippie movement claimed him as a guru after Stranger in A Strange Land came out, as his political views were so different to that culture's.
In regard to his writing style I'm reminded of Isaac Newton's quote "If I seem to see far it is because I'm standing on the shoulders of giants". He was a great story teller with a very interesting philosophy but later authors are more polished.

Which gives one to wonder, with what he would know today, what RAH would be writing....

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, along with The Mote in God's Eye (Niven and Purnelle) remain my most favorite SF stand-alone works.

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:How about a right to vote only through civil service? The second question I can actually find some merit in, but still find faults.

The idea that people who have performed public service are in some way more capable of making informed decisions about public policy is laughable at best, dangerous at worst.

The E wrote:

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:How about a right to vote only through civil service? The second question I can actually find some merit in, but still find faults.

The idea that people who have performed public service are in some way more capable of making informed decisions about public policy is laughable at best, dangerous at worst.

Oh, I don't know... At least some one who has done public service has contributed. Why should the dregs of society who do nothing but drag down the system and society with it have an equal say in what is decided on?

To my mind, a person who has performed public service is at least looking to the common welfare. They're probably no smarter, on the average, then the dregs, but they've done something better then simply be a leech. Maybe they can't make a better informed decision, but they have a more valid right to provide input to the process.

It all depends on your definition of Public Service.

To too many of us, Public Service = Civil Service = Mandarins = "Yes Minister"

I much prefer the "Voluntary tax is 10% of income or £120 per year, whichever is greater and you can't pay if you claim anything from the government / To vote you must pay tax for at least 4 consecutive years (2 years credit given at 16 yrs old)" method of allowing people to vote.

That way, politicians would have every excuse to get people into work so that they can pay the tax for themselves/family and thus vote.

Sure, it'd disenfranchise several million (at first, anyway), but it would put control of the country's direction in the hands of those who are willing to make the societal (or rather, financial) sacrifice in question.

And although I'd let the army, police etc vote, I'd prevent civil servants from voting. After all, they're paid by the government to work for the government and answer only to the government.

Michael Everett wrote:It all depends on your definition of Public Service.

To too many of us, Public Service = Civil Service = Mandarins = "Yes Minister"

I much prefer the "Voluntary tax is 10% of income or £120 per year, whichever is greater and you can't pay if you claim anything from the government / To vote you must pay tax for at least 4 consecutive years (2 years credit given at 16 yrs old)" method of allowing people to vote.

That way, politicians would have every excuse to get people into work so that they can pay the tax for themselves/family and thus vote.

Sure, it'd disenfranchise several million (at first, anyway), but it would put control of the country's direction in the hands of those who are willing to make the societal (or rather, financial) sacrifice in question.

And although I'd let the army, police etc vote, I'd prevent civil servants from voting. After all, they're paid by the government to work for the government and answer only to the government.

Well, being A Civil Servant, I'd have to object to that....

IIRC, one of Heinlein's suggestions (don't ask me where I read it because I don't remember) was that anyone could vote, but to unlock the voting machine, you had to solve a simple algebraic equation (3x + 2 = 26 for example).

In other words, show the ability to think and reason. Then you could vote.

I suppose I have done everything except plan an invasion, program a computer and die gallantly. 66 years old. Public safety, including military, should qualify for the right to vote. Civil service may qualify, depending on the situation.

Public safety means putting the needs of the many before the needs of the few, or the one, or yourself. The means the knowledge that you might die horribly serving the greater good. This includes military, police, fire and ems.

I also think that welfare people should NOT vote. Additionally, civil servants should NOT vote in any election where it is contrary to their self interest. Cops and firemen should not vote on their outfits tax budgets as an example.

I would even go further and suggest that if your income comes from tax dollars, then you can not be politically active within that consideration. Cops can not be politically active for a related tax measure. There must be restraints.

There should be a minimum number of years of required public service. Less time for public or national safety. Once you qualify and pay taxes, then you can vote. Not before. Until this is done, the USA is doomed to a eventual slow death.

HB of CJ (old coot) Cm