(SPOILERS) Is Nynian to be trusted?

Remember all this speculation started when Nynian approached Merlin for his ability to travel quickly and asked his assistance for a quick day trip to Zion and back.

Then Nynian started revealing information about the SSK. Initially speculation was that Nynian needed assistance in some operation of hers, presumably against the Zion church. Maybe it is just to have Merlin meet ftf with the leaders of the SSK and Nynian doesnt want her and Merlin to have to explain their long absence from Siddarmark. So far, other than Merlin's help with transportaion, Nynian hasn't asked anything of him as far as helping herself or the sisterhood on any ops plan directed at the church.

I don't recall any textev as to the current location of the SSK. Since the original shrine of St. Kohdy was destroyed by Rakurai, I kinda doubt that there is a convent called the Sisters of Saint Kohdy anywhere on Safehold. Of course there may be no actual physical location for the SSK headquarters and the SSK may be a secret organization with members scattered through several locations but their convent could be located in or near Zion. A sort of hide in plain sight theory of deception with a respectable front like a conservative convent of some innocuous order.

We know that St. Kohdy's body and a copy of his diary was moved to a secret location and that Nynian was raised in a convent but we shouldn't assume that either of these places is the current location of the SSK or that the SSK even has all its leadership gathered at a central location. Nynian may want to take Merlin to meet the head of her order and if he passes the vetting, show him a copy of the Diary and possibly work together with him on some plan of the sisterhood. They also want to see if Merlin knows anything about the sisterhoods theories as to the origin of Safehold.

Can't wait for the next snippet and will be very disappointed if it doesn't continue with Nynian and Merlin and instead we get some dry lecture about historical firearms engineering and development.

keylime314 wrote:If they get a translation that goes completely against what they're expecting, and goes against their basic belief structure, what will they do? Do they blindly accept it as true, or do they apply those critical thinking skills and wonder if the source of the translation is lying to them because a 'real' translation would have hurt Merlin's cause?

Use the verifier on Nynian, with an agreed set of questions so she doesn't need to worry about revealing too many secrets including a few questions she lies to and then corrects herself. Thus proving the verifier is real and works, then hand the verifier to Merlin and ask him a similar set of questions (again with some lies). Then ask Merlin "To the best of your knowledge, is the translation you have provided full and accurate?".

Sharp Claw wrote:Remember all this speculation started when Nynian approached Merlin for his ability to travel quickly and asked his assistance for a quick day trip to Zion and back.

Then Nynian started revealing information about the SSK. Initially speculation was that Nynian needed assistance in some operation of hers, presumably against the Zion church. Maybe it is just to have Merlin meet ftf with the leaders of the SSK and Nynian doesnt want her and Merlin to have to explain their long absence from Siddarmark. So far, other than Merlin's help with transportaion, Nynian hasn't asked anything of him as far as helping herself or the sisterhood on any ops plan directed at the church.

Hi, Sharpclaw,

Very nice post and right on target. I also doubt that the sisterhood has labeled themselves to be recognized. Just an additional thought that I think folds into yours pretty well. The sisterhood was originally founded to care for Seijin Kohdy's tomb. I suspect that the journal, the abbess and the tomb are all in that location so that they could serve their original function, along with at least a small representation of the sisters. But I doubt that any of it is out in the open for the inquisition to stumble across. Maybe the convent of the most holy Sisters of St. Ahnzelyk or something like that has the shrine for Kohdy in the basement. And of course, the poor poverty stricken sisters never even heard of Kohdy except as the subject of children's tales if any outsider should get nosy.

Don

AClone wrote:

“Either we’re going to trust one another a great deal eventually, Merlin,” she said, “or this is going to end very badly for someone.”

Given what she said about her own indoctrination, she is referring to herself.

She did not rule out bad endings for multiple someones. Merlin and the Inner Circle can put her under unprecedented levels of surveillance, but given the nature of the code we've seen her use before - completely innocuous pre-arranged signs that are not even visibly communication unless you know what to look for - she could still get word out about the Inner Circle. Word that could be very harmful.

Anything she hasn't already arranged, however, Merlin - or rather, Owl - can interdict. If she tries to talk to anybody, a SNARC can kill her on the spot. They can read all her correspondence and destroy anything they suspect is in a code they cannot break. She's probably better at intrigue and secrecy than anybody in the Inner Circle, but considering that includes Nahrman, not by very much. And the Inner Circle has an enormous technical advantage.

I don't think so. The sort of code she used for the refugees were /flags/. Simple messages that specified a very specific message that was pre-arranged. I doubt she has a 'help, I'm being held by a group of people created before the Fall by the evil Shan-Wei' as a message.

It's pretty much impossible to have that sort of messaging done for highly complex messages. It just doesn't work that way. I'm sure computer scientists would LOVE to be proven wrong about that and be given an encryption that would work with such small bits of data, though.

She might, however, have a code flag for 'I have been compromised'.

Icarium wrote:I don't think so. The sort of code she used for the refugees were /flags/. Simple messages that specified a very specific message that was pre-arranged. I doubt she has a 'help, I'm being held by a group of people created before the Fall by the evil Shan-Wei' as a message.

It's pretty much impossible to have that sort of messaging done for highly complex messages. It just doesn't work that way. I'm sure computer scientists would LOVE to be proven wrong about that and be given an encryption that would work with such small bits of data, though.

She might, however, have a code flag for 'I have been compromised'.

Your basic point here is true. However, that would severely restrict her. She probably has ways of communicating more complex messages, perhaps even ways that snarcs would have difficulty with. Merlin would figure it out eventually, but not easily. A major reason Merlin hasn't figured it out so far is that he has had no real reason to. Whether or not it becomes necessary probably depends on Nynian's willingness to continue to trust Merlin. If that trust includes a trip to see the sisters and the journal, there may be no need to. Nynian has certainly been far more open than Merlin so far. She is at least convinced that Merlin isn't going to hand her over to the inquisition. As of the last snippet, Merlin's jury is still out.

Don

Hi Don,

Sorry to get back to this thread so late.

Snippet #6 has arrived and speculation about who Nynian is in the SSK has been answered, which help to explain why Nynian can reveal so much and has the man or woman power to watch Merlin so well, plus the resources to fund her various activities.

That the SSK deliberately sought out the rebellious young ladies of the temple knight families makes more sense now, since they saw the internal corruption, hypocrisy, and venality first hand, they did not need to be convinced that the CoGA hierarchy was corrupt; a major stumbling block for most not raised inside the elect families.

Given all that Nynian has revealed so far, I'm thinking Merlin feels obligated to return such trust, at least agreeing to the trip, providing a Spanish dictionary, and answering some of her wise questions about where the Adams and Eves came from.

She's not going to run to the Go4 and denounce Merlin, indeed she seems to feel some admiration for Merlin [which he reciprocates], so who can say where their relationship will lead over time?

We haven't heard the last late night conversation they'll have, by any means.

L

n7axw wrote:

Icarium wrote:I don't think so. The sort of code she used for the refugees were /flags/. Simple messages that specified a very specific message that was pre-arranged. I doubt she has a 'help, I'm being held by a group of people created before the Fall by the evil Shan-Wei' as a message.

It's pretty much impossible to have that sort of messaging done for highly complex messages. It just doesn't work that way. I'm sure computer scientists would LOVE to be proven wrong about that and be given an encryption that would work with such small bits of data, though.

She might, however, have a code flag for 'I have been compromised'.

Your basic point here is true. However, that would severely restrict her. She probably has ways of communicating more complex messages, perhaps even ways that snarcs would have difficulty with. Merlin would figure it out eventually, but not easily. A major reason Merlin hasn't figured it out so far is that he has had no real reason to. Whether or not it becomes necessary probably depends on Nynian's willingness to continue to trust Merlin. If that trust includes a trip to see the sisters and the journal, there may be no need to. Nynian has certainly been far more open than Merlin so far. She is at least convinced that Merlin isn't going to hand her over to the inquisition. As of the last snippet, Merlin's jury is still out.

Don

I find myself wondering if a trip to Nimue's cave might not be the next logical step for Nynian... I would be fascinated to see how she reacts to Pei Kauyung's recording.

Don

Just a minor bit of Fridge Brilliance here...

Does anyone remember Marlys? She was the girl that Nynian picked to entertain "Seijinn Abraim" when he first visited Nynian. Marlys described herself as being somewhat rebellious for going into the "trade" rather than becoming a proper nun.

Another potential SSK recruit assuming she hasn't already been recruited perhaps?

evilauthor wrote:Just a minor bit of Fridge Brilliance here...

Does anyone remember Marlys? She was the girl that Nynian picked to entertain "Seijinn Abraim" when he first visited Nynian. Marlys described herself as being somewhat rebellious for going into the "trade" rather than becoming a proper nun.

Another potential SSK recruit assuming she hasn't already been recruited perhaps?

I find myself hoping that when "Ahnzelyk" diappeared, those girls weren't thrown to the wolves...er, the inquisition...

Don