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Student Debt

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Student Debt
Post by biochem   » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:10 am

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Fall is back and so is the college loan crisis. In the USA it is predicted to be the next home mortgage crisis. For those outside the US, remember how the US home mortgage crisis affected the whole planet?

The problem: 70% of students graduate with an average student loan debt of about $30,000. Inflation adjusted that's double what it was 20 years ago. Note that's the average, that means half the students have more debt than that. The aggregate is over a trillion dollars and the default rate is about 10-15%.

1. College costs are increasing drastically about twice the rate of inflation for the past 30 years. The majority of the money has gone to increased administrative costs not to instruction.

2. College freshmen are only 18 years old and let's face it an awful lot of 18 year olds don't have the best long term judgement. Fortunately most of these guys have parents who do, but for those who don't we're all picking up the bill in loan defaults.

- For example while not the norm there are people who rack up $200000 majoring in social work or graphic art etc. Those people will NEVER earn enough to pay back the loans

3. General financial illiteracy on the part of way too many Americans

4. Dropouts with student loans don't have the extra income from the degree to pay it off and thus default more frequently i.e. we the taxpayers pay for it.


Solutions

1. Better information

1a. Easily understood information on the student loan docs, similar to that now required credit cards in clear and easily understandable English including what the payment will be and how long it will take to pay off the loan. Make it clear that the money will be owed even if the student does not graduate.

1b. Add the following questions to the census

- College graduated from if any

- College Major

- For those who graduated College are you
a. Employed in your major
b. Employed outside your major
c. Not employed

Once the census has obtained the information combine it with salary data and supply it to the universities. Require the universities to make public for each individual major 1. The % of individuals employed in that major, the percent employed outside of the major and the % not employed. 2. The average salary of that major for the first 10 years post graduation

Require student loan applicants to handwrite the following "My major is x, I expect to make a salary of [insert average salary for the first 10 years from census here]. My annual student loan payment from this loan will be [insert info for loan applying for here] and [insert info for existing loans here] for a total annual payment of [insert total]."

A bit of a pain for those who are financially literate but at least it will ensure that the even the stupidest 18 year old knows what they are getting into.

Plus it will shine the light of day on some of these programs universities are convincing gullible students to major in.

1c. Require a course in financial literacy for any student loan recipient.

1d. Also require colleges to publicly post graduation percentages in an easily accessible location!

2. Reform bankruptcy laws to make private student loans dischargeable by bankruptcy. Student loans are not dischargeable by bankruptcy not even private student loans from private banks! That makes some sense for the Federal loans but the private banks are having a field day! There is no cap on the interest and penalties the private banks can charge. Financially savvy parents won't let students sign the bad loans but for 18 year olds without financially savvy parents it can be the start of a long nightmare. But if the banks know that the students can file for bankruptcy to get out from under these bad loans, they will be less likely to issue them in the first place and they will never agree to lend $200000 to a social work major!

3. Death of recipient voids the loan. A lot of these loans are co-signed by parents who are still responsible for the full amount even if the student dies.

4. Limit how much money the Feds are providing. Part of the increase in costs is driven by the availability of money. If the Feds will loan the kids more money, the colleges will raise tuition to match. Stop the increases and limit future increases to the inflation rate (the regular one not the 2x college one).

5. Make the colleges have skin in the game regarding federal loan defaults. If a student from the college defaults the college should have to pay back 50% of the money to the Federal loan program.

6. I hate to say it but some more regulation is in order to keep tuition costs down in the first place. I'm not exactly a fan of regulation but sometimes it is needed.

For colleges who receive federal financial aid

a. No more than 25% of the university's budget from all sources including athletic contracts and research grants on administration

b. No more than 10% of the university's budget from tuition and student fees on athletics including coaches salaries (not including money raised from alumni specifically designated for sports and maintained in a separate account or money received from TV rights etc. Actually for Division I schools it might be simpler to have the athletic budget run as a self funding stand alone)

c. A minimum of 50% of the university's budget from tuition and student fees spent on salaries of the faculty actually teaching the courses (salaries of professors who spend most of their time on research should be funded through research grants)

d. Routine audits conducted by 3rd party auditors selected by regulators and released to the public

e. Set standards for drop out rates of student loan recipients i.e. dropout factories should not be eligible for federal student loans

7. Keep parents in the loop! Due to privacy regulations parents are not entitled to see the grades and classes the student is taking unless the student chooses to share that information. Those regulations should be changed. A parent who is either paying for tuition or co-signing student loans should be sent a copy of the student's class schedule and grades directly. This will help parents head off trouble earlier, by actions such as refusing to co-sign loans if academic performance is subpar (a leading risk for drop out and leaving them stuck with loans but no degree). Students who are paying their own way should of course be entitled to their privacy and grades should not be distributed to their parents unless requested by the student.
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Re: Student Debt
Post by Donnachaidh   » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:51 am

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You made many good points. It's almost impossible to have student loans forgiven, they stay through bankruptcy.

The biggest contributor to increasing costs in post-secondary education is politicians of all strips treating education funding as a giant piggy bank for their pet slush funds (that might not be quite fair but what they've been doing for the past 30 years has been insanely short sighted).

John Oliver did a very good segment on this topic last Sunday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8pjd1QEA0c

biochem wrote:Fall is back and so is the college loan crisis. In the USA it is predicted to be the next home mortgage crisis. For those outside the US, remember how the US home mortgage crisis affected the whole planet?

The problem: 70% of students graduate with an average student loan debt of about $30,000. Inflation adjusted that's double what it was 20 years ago. Note that's the average, that means half the students ...[SNIP]
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Re: Student Debt
Post by clancy688   » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:58 am

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Oh, the joys of living in evil socialist Europe... I'm currently writing my Master's thesis in Computer Engineering. When I'll finish in February, my debt balance will be a perfect zero.

The average tuition fees I have to pay are 500 €. A YEAR. The kind of numbers I hear from the US sound ridiculous to me. There's seriously something wrong.

College costs are increasing drastically about twice the rate of inflation for the past 30 years. The majority of the money has gone to increased administrative costs not to instruction.


On the other hand, German universities' administration is one major catastrophe. If any of you have watched The Twelve Tasks of Asterix - getting something done at a German college/university is a task of equal effort (and insanity) to obtain permit A 38. ;)
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Re: Student Debt
Post by Daryl   » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:00 am

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In Australia we are currently moving from the European style to a US style system. My first degree over 40 years ago was free, ten years ago it would have been about $10,000. Our current conservative government is pushing for deregulation which could mean up to $200,000 for some courses.

Total Tea Party type economic stupidity in that some estimates put that education in useful courses will eventually repay the economy seven fold. The ideological aim is to ensure that only the right people from the right type of families end up leading society. We don't want people from Bogan (trailer park trash) backgrounds becoming judges do we? They might end up providing judgements in favour of people rather than corporations. End rant.
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Re: Student Debt
Post by Annachie   » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:44 am

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Ideology over reality, as has been typical of the Abbott government.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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still not dead. :)
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Re: Student Debt
Post by biochem   » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:01 am

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Location: USA

Avg cost

Public university tuition and fees $9000/yr (in state, part of the cost is covered by state taxes so tuition varies by state in part dependent on how much taxpayer money is spent)

Private university tuition and fees $30000/yr (Note - they cover a lot of that with scholarships. Their business model seems to be charge a lot of official tuition to make themselves look exclusive but then turn around and spend a large percent of tuition income on scholarships.)

Avg Housing an additional $10000/yr

Avg Books an additional $1000/yr

Actual costs vary widely by university.
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Re: Student Debt
Post by biochem   » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:53 pm

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Donnachaidh wrote:You made many good points. It's almost impossible to have student loans forgiven, they stay through bankruptcy.

The biggest contributor to increasing costs in post-secondary education is politicians of all strips treating education funding as a giant piggy bank for their pet slush funds (that might not be quite fair but what they've been doing for the past 30 years has been insanely short sighted).

John Oliver did a very good segment on this topic last Sunday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8pjd1QEA0c



About 10% of the students attend for profits. However, student loan reform won't fix the for profit problem. Jail terms for fraud are needed for these guys. I do know people who have gotten bit by these criminals. Basically everything is misrepresented. The people I know who have been bit tend to come from disadvantaged backgrounds with parents either completely uninvolved or parents who lack the knowledge to understand what is going on. Thee crooks tend to get away with it by having the written material vetted by lawyers, verbal recruiting is completely different.

On the bright side not all of the for profits are crooks. And the good ones are useful. They tend to be more flexible helping those who work their way through college get an education. They also tend to be more focused on what's really necessary to get the degree in question, which is generally targeted toward a specific job. No wasting time in irrelevant classes that colleges are becoming increasingly famous for. And the good ones do graduate students that are better prepared to get a job in the real world. But is very much a buyer beware situation and unfortunately the buyers are usually disadvantaged 18 year olds not exactly the best people to properly evaluate a buyer beware situation.
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Re: Student Debt
Post by biochem   » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:49 pm

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Yet another negative fallout from the student loan crisis. The Feds are using the owed balance on the defaulted loans (plus interest and penalties, compounded annually) as an asset. Since those most of those loans will NEVER be paid back, it's basically an accounting trick to make the horrendous national debt look smaller and in theory slightly less horrendous.
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