HFQ Offical Snippet #4

Tonto Silerheels wrote:Joat42 wrote: If you lack cultural context some things just don't make sense even if you speak the language and it gets even worse when you translate things.

I was curious so I made a little test. I don't know any Spanish beyond a few counting words and how to say "yes" and "no", so I typed a few random sentences into Google Translate. In fact, I typed,

I saw George today. He told me that the vest pocket nuke Proctor used was the GBU34 he had put away for a rainy day. I don't know how he had gotten a hold of it, and I don't care. It seems strange to me that Langhorne would ever let Proctor within a mile of the archangels' office building.

Google Translate gave me,

Vi George hoy. Él me dijo que el arma nuclear bolsillo del chaleco Proctor utilizó fue el GBU34 él había guardado para un día lluvioso. No sé cómo había conseguido un asimiento de él, y no me importa. Parece extraño que Langhorne jamás dejar Proctor a un kilómetro del edificio de oficinas de los arcángeles.

Here are some of the things that jump out to me.

1. Most of the letters are the same ones that I, as an English speaker use. Some of them are the same except for having an accent mark. Some of the i's have an accent in place of the dot.

2. I recognise some words--particularly names. I think that George would still be spelled the same on safehold, just pronounced differently. The names Mr. Weber uses are his way of showing the pronunciation shift. Names from the writ and the testimonies would be spelled the same as they were when they were written, but pronounced differently in the same way as Yesua is spelled Jesus but pronounced Hey-soos.

3. The church is quite good at deciphering coded transmissions, and there are hints that they have a computer available to translate. None of the usual ciphers are going to work on this. However, some of the manual techniques are going to have some success. For example, "we" have lots of examples of the way Cohdy writes. This will show things like whether he frequently uses the word "I" or not. If he does then it would be reasonable to suggest that many of the Spanish words he uses mean "I". Other words, like "and" and "the" might be the same, although I understand that he can get into trouble with the word "the." Some words are not the same, but are strongly reminiscent, such as arcángeles. Other phrases aren't going to be much help, as "vest pocket nuke" doesn't suggest "el arma nuclear bolsillo del chaleco" to me.

A good time was enjoyed by all.

~Tonto

Tonto Silerheels wrote:Joat42 wrote: If you lack cultural context some things just don't make sense even if you speak the language and it gets even worse when you translate things.

I was curious so I made a little test. I don't know any Spanish beyond a few counting words and how to say "yes" and "no", so I typed a few random sentences into Google Translate. In fact, I typed,

I saw George today. He told me that the vest pocket nuke Proctor used was the GBU34 he had put away for a rainy day. I don't know how he had gotten a hold of it, and I don't care. It seems strange to me that Langhorne would ever let Proctor within a mile of the archangels' office building.

Google Translate gave me,

Vi George hoy. Él me dijo que el arma nuclear bolsillo del chaleco Proctor utilizó fue el GBU34 él había guardado para un día lluvioso. No sé cómo había conseguido un asimiento de él, y no me importa. Parece extraño que Langhorne jamás dejar Proctor a un kilómetro del edificio de oficinas de los arcángeles.

Here are some of the things that jump out to me.

1. Most of the letters are the same ones that I, as an English speaker use. Some of them are the same except for having an accent mark. Some of the i's have an accent in place of the dot.

2. I recognise some words--particularly names. I think that George would still be spelled the same on safehold, just pronounced differently. The names Mr. Weber uses are his way of showing the pronunciation shift. Names from the writ and the testimonies would be spelled the same as they were when they were written, but pronounced differently in the same way as Yesua is spelled Jesus but pronounced Hey-soos.

3. The church is quite good at deciphering coded transmissions, and there are hints that they have a computer available to translate. None of the usual ciphers are going to work on this. However, some of the manual techniques are going to have some success. For example, "we" have lots of examples of the way Cohdy writes. This will show things like whether he frequently uses the word "I" or not. If he does then it would be reasonable to suggest that many of the Spanish words he uses mean "I". Other words, like "and" and "the" might be the same, although I understand that he can get into trouble with the word "the." Some words are not the same, but are strongly reminiscent, such as arcángeles. Other phrases aren't going to be much help, as "vest pocket nuke" doesn't suggest "el arma nuclear bolsillo del chaleco" to me.

A good time was enjoyed by all.

~Tonto

Tonto Silerheels wrote:Weird Harold wrote:
And that is without any idiomatic usage in the original English. Presumably, Federation AIs would be a bit better at translations than Google, but manual decoding by someone who doesn't have the concept of multiple languages is going to fail miserably.

Technically, both "a rainy day" and "within a mile" are idiomatic, but I get your point.

Mainly, whether the attempt to translate fails miserably depends upon your criteria. Will they get 100%? No, definitely not. Will they get more than nothing? They definitely will. Will they get enough to get some sense of what Kohdy was trying to conceal? Yes, I think so. Consider that there have been a large number of Sisters poring over it for eight hundred years--Sisters who have every incentive to understand its meaning. I imagine that there are dissertations hidden in the Sister's convent concerning the meaning of small phrases. Are there going to be major misunderstandings? Certainly. Are there going to be breakthroughs? Certainly, as well.

You have a good point about people who have no concept of multiple languages. Despite that, I don't think the problem is insurmountable. There is a report of two sisters near here raised in unimaginable squalor. As they had little interaction with others, they developed their own language. I've been given opportunities to talk with them, and I'm fascinated. By the way, one sister is very fluent with English. It's difficult to say with the other sister, because she's so shy. It seems to me that there have been times when the girls have reverted to their personal language in my presence. If something similar were to happen on Safehold, then it's entirely possible that the Sisters have the concept of multiple languages.

~Tonto

6L6 wrote:I am suprised that after seven hundred years that the sisters have made no progress decypering the parts in epanol. Once Jean-François Champollion had the Rosetta Stone he was able to read Egyptian Hieroglyphs. In suggesting that Merlin give the sisters a dictionary they would know that the text was true and that Merlin was not trying to decieve them.

LordSunhawk wrote:Well, Merlin doesn't have the port, but NIMUE does...

jmseeley wrote:Stray thought - does Merlin even speak Spanish? He doesn't have a high speed data port, so he can't learn it instantly.